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What is the wisdom in building a defense around LBers?


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#1 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:30 PM

Ok, our LBers are good. Remember the high fives we gave each other for having the best 4-3 core in the league like it meant something. That was awesome. But, when will this translate to an improved defense? Well, I am not going to just ask the question, I will answer it too.

The defense will improve when we get corners and pass rushers, but there lies the problem because we don't have any money to spend to get that help. We spent a lot of extra money on our LB and RB core. So free agency is out of the question, and will likely be the next couple more years with this core. We used a precious top ten first round pick to further improve the LBer core. He was third first round LBer pick in 7 years, and we had six due poor trades. This position is the easiest position to find a steady performer and the one you are least worried at filling, and Hurney found it necessary to use half of our first round picks in a seven year span .

So we have four at least above average LBers, and two average ones. We are a 4-3, so three of them will see the field in a base defense. If the other team goes 3 wide, one more has to come out of the game. This will happen a lot because teams line up 3 or more wide around 50% of the time now. So for 50% of the defensive formations we will either have two 5 million dollar players on the bench or one five million dollar player, and a top 10 pick on the bench while lining up two questionable corners and two questionable safeties in this formation, and a D-Line that still needs upgrades.

But FirstRoundPick, I want a transcendent LBer, with good LBer play to go with it, I think it is crucial to a team getting to the Superbowl. Well you would just be wrong. Looking over the last SuperBowl participants over the last 10 years, and the most recent one with a transcendent LBer is the Bears with Urlacher in 2006, and before that Derrick Brooks in 2002. Those two teams just happened to have good D-Lines and secondaries by the way. I didn't include 3-4 teams because a pass rush LBers are way more important and are not in the same league of importance as a typical 4-3 linebacker. If we were a 3-4 team, I would have no problems with drafting pass rushing line backers in the first in fact it would pretty much essential to do so.

I know a lot of you are going to say I hate Kuechly. Not true, I hate the pick, but not the player. I respect the contributions that he will have for this team, but unless he becomes truly transcendent, he will not live up to his draft position. You don't draft a 4-3 outside LBer who is good at tackling with a top ten pick. There is no value there. I lot of you are going to say I hate Hurney. This is true. I hate the body of work that he has done for this team over the last 10 years. Not one of you have even come close to a reasonable argument of why he is a good GM. He is a good cap manager, but we are pretty screwed for the next two years, and it has been that way for a while, except for the cash drop year when we went on a spending spree on our own players the next year. A lot of you will say that I could not have done better. Uh ok. If a wide receiver drops a wide open pass ten times in a row, obviously he should catch nine of them. Even though I may not have the ability to catch nine of them doesn't mean I can't say he should be able to. Same logic applies for GM, just because I may not have the ability to make a good team doesn't mean I can't criticize someone else who doesn't.

TLDR; version Go to another thread lazy bum.

#2 jtnc

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 06:48 PM

Not being able to lock-up Pep or at LEAST get something other than a lousy compensatory 3rd pick KILLED us. No other GM wouldn't have let that player type of player leave without a fight.

#3 Rip Saw

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:03 PM

fook peppers- glad hes gone - didnt want to be here and was dead weight

#4 PhillyB

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:10 PM

when you have a player like beason on defense you build around him.

when the strength of your team suddenly is at risk of becoming your weakest, you plug the holes and evaluate the needs moving forward.

we're not just grabbing all the linebackers ever and plugging them in... there's a reason we've targeted who we've targeted.

#5 Keith Moons Liver

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:10 PM

Our LBers sure don't look that good. Beason is playing nowhere near his pre-injury level.

#6 SuperMan

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:12 PM

Our LBers sure don't look that good. Beason is playing nowhere near his pre-injury level.


Most of his bad play looks like rust... the missed tackles and blown coverage's.

Kuechly to the middle is looking better all the time.

#7 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:13 PM

when you have a player like beason on defense you build around him.

when the strength of your team suddenly is at risk of becoming your weakest, you plug the holes and evaluate the needs moving forward.

we're not just grabbing all the linebackers ever and plugging them in... there's a reason we've targeted who we've targeted.


The person in charge of personal decisions doesn't what he is doing?

#8 Dick the Butcher

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:27 PM

Quality post

#9 panther4life

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:37 PM

Not being able to lock-up Pep or at LEAST get something other than a lousy compensatory 3rd pick KILLED us. No other GM wouldn't have let that player type of player leave without a fight.

Rick Smith of the Texans says hi(Mario Williams).

#10 panther4life

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:38 PM

Ok, our LBers are good. Remember the high fives we gave each other for having the best 4-3 core in the league like it meant something. That was awesome. But, when will this translate to an improved defense? Well, I am not going to just ask the question, I will answer it too.

The defense will improve when we get corners and pass rushers, but there lies the problem because we don't have any money to spend to get that help. We spent a lot of extra money on our LB and RB core. So free agency is out of the question, and will likely be the next couple more years with this core. We used a precious top ten first round pick to further improve the LBer core. He was third first round LBer pick in 7 years, and we had six due poor trades. This position is the easiest position to find a steady performer and the one you are least worried at filling, and Hurney found it necessary to use half of our first round picks in a seven year span .

So we have four at least above average LBers, and two average ones. We are a 4-3, so three of them will see the field in a base defense. If the other team goes 3 wide, one more has to come out of the game. This will happen a lot because teams line up 3 or more wide around 50% of the time now. So for 50% of the defensive formations we will either have two 5 million dollar players on the bench or one five million dollar player, and a top 10 pick on the bench while lining up two questionable corners and two questionable safeties in this formation, and a D-Line that still needs upgrades.

But FirstRoundPick, I want a transcendent LBer, with good LBer play to go with it, I think it is crucial to a team getting to the Superbowl. Well you would just be wrong. Looking over the last SuperBowl participants over the last 10 years, and the most recent one with a transcendent LBer is the Bears with Urlacher in 2006, and before that Derrick Brooks in 2002. Those two teams just happened to have good D-Lines and secondaries by the way. I didn't include 3-4 teams because a pass rush LBers are way more important and are not in the same league of importance as a typical 4-3 linebacker. If we were a 3-4 team, I would have no problems with drafting pass rushing line backers in the first in fact it would pretty much essential to do so.

I know a lot of you are going to say I hate Kuechly. Not true, I hate the pick, but not the player. I respect the contributions that he will have for this team, but unless he becomes truly transcendent, he will not live up to his draft position. You don't draft a 4-3 outside LBer who is good at tackling with a top ten pick. There is no value there. I lot of you are going to say I hate Hurney. This is true. I hate the body of work that he has done for this team over the last 10 years. Not one of you have even come close to a reasonable argument of why he is a good GM. He is a good cap manager, but we are pretty screwed for the next two years, and it has been that way for a while, except for the cash drop year when we went on a spending spree on our own players the next year. A lot of you will say that I could not have done better. Uh ok. If a wide receiver drops a wide open pass ten times in a row, obviously he should catch nine of them. Even though I may not have the ability to catch nine of them doesn't mean I can't say he should be able to. Same logic applies for GM, just because I may not have the ability to make a good team doesn't mean I can't criticize someone else who doesn't.

TLDR; version Go to another thread lazy bum.


Do you think Rivera put a fight against drafting Kuechly? I don't disagree with you. I wanted a DE or a corner badly and was flamed for wanting them over a 3-tech DT.

#11 jtnc

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:40 PM

Rick Smith of the Texans says hi(Mario Williams).


He didn't fit their scheme.

#12 MaineManPanther

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:42 PM


In 2007 given the Roster and the draft picks around our spot, Beason was the right choice.

Following the same logic, the choice of Davis was also correct.

The pick of Luke is more questionable, given the roster. And he wasn't my preferred choice, but there is a legitimate argument in picking him. You have two serious and debilitating injuries to two of your starters, at the time Davis looked done, and Achilles has a history of hampering returns. So it would've been a big weakness. Luke could fill either spot.
Also is a league that passes and utilizes Te and RB more and more, having a talented coverage Lb would certainley help.

However, even if we discount Luke ( which cant be fully called until we better know how he the other picks end up being) the fact is 2 of those three picks were the right call. Because of this I don't see how Hurney should be blamed that we had three first round Lbs.

#13 FirstRoundPick

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:54 PM

Do you think Rivera put a fight against drafting Kuechly? I don't disagree with you. I wanted a DE or a corner badly and was flamed for wanting them over a 3-tech DT.



Well if you go by some huddlers agruments. Hurney is a coaches GM and gets the coaches whoever they want. If you look at that reasonably, I think that is a bunch of bs. I don't have a clue who Rivera wanted.

#14 jackson113

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:04 PM

We've been getting run on since before Fox left. Seems like they would fix this eventually......

#15 Lumps

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 08:30 PM

Luke was a must, Davis will not be a full time contributor and with Beason coming back full strength one big ??, I now see Luke was a must. I agree he was taken at a poor value spot but I believe needs did play a factor as well as talent. You can build a team around Luke or Beason. Luke was alos the second choice, with the first taken before our turn. I don't like Hurney, never have but I won't blame him for Luke other than poor value which was casualty by necessity.


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