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#25 Mr. Scot

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:20 PM

My hopes (as expressed elsewhere)...

Hurney gets bumped up to a figurehead vice president of personnel position.

An actual nuts and bolts football guy gets the GM job and remakes the scouting department.

The team actually puts some more effort into scouting pro personnel / free agents.

Not optimistic, but that'd be my hopes.

#26 panther4life

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

My hopes (as expressed elsewhere)...

Hurney gets bumped up to a figurehead vice president of personnel position.

An actual nuts and bolts football guy gets the GM job and remakes the scouting department.

The team actually puts some more effort into scouting pro personnel / free agents.

Not optimistic, but that'd be my hopes.

aside from everette brown trade what are your biggest complaints about him?

#27 Mr. Scot

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:36 PM

aside from everette brown trade what are your biggest complaints about him?


A few years back I posted a thread about how he has an unfortunate tendency to build around the wrong people. The context of that particular thread was his putting the 'transition tag' on DeShaun Foster. Sadly, the decision making hasn't improved much since.

And it's not just Everette Brown he traded up for. There's also Jeff Otah (more forgivable but still bad) and Armanti Edwards (pretty well unforgivable at this point).

Add in that just a few weeks ago - in a discussion about Don Gregory - I looked over the last five drafts before 2012. Here's what I found.

2011

1st Round - Cam Newton (obvious hit)
2nd Round - Traded away to get Armanti Edwards
3rd Round - DT Terrell McClain (cut)
3rd Round - DT Sione Fua (inactive)
4th Round - CB Brandon Hogan (injured, and by some accounts lazy)
5th Round - WR Kealoha Pilares (decent)
6th Round - LB Lawrence Wilson (cut because he was a dimbulb)
6th Round - OL Zack Williams (practice squad)
7th Round - OL Lee Ziemba (injured reserve)

2010

2nd Round - QB Jimmy Clausen (nuff said)
3rd Round - WR Brandon LaFell (panning out so far)
3rd Round - WR Armanti Edwards (on year 3 of a "3 year plan")
4th Round - DE Eric Norwood (gone, if he was ever really even here)
6th Round - DE Greg Hardy (up in the air, ought to be better than he seems to be)
6th Round - WR David Gettis (injured, has looked good when healthy)
6th Round - Jordan Pugh (cut, picked up by Redskins)
6th Round - QB Tony Pike (does anyone even remember we drafted him?)
7th Round - CB R.J. Stanford (cut, picked up by Dolphins)
7th Round - CB Robert McClain (cut, currently a Falcon)

2009

2nd Round - DE Everette Brown (and we traded a future first rounder to get him)
2nd Round - CB Sherrod Martin (currently a backup / special teamer)
3rd Round - DT Corvey Irvin (gone, was active for the Bucs yesterday but I don't think he had any stats)
4th Round - RB Mike Goodson (traded to the Raiders)
4th Round - FB Tony Fiammetta (cut, currently in New England)
5th Round - G Duke Robinson (cut, currently somewhere having a double cheeseburger)
7th Round - CB Captain Munnerlyn (loads of heart, but just not good enough to be a starter)

2008

1st Round - RB Jonathan Stewart (phenomenal when healthy)
1st Round - T Jeff Otah (phenomenal when it's 2008, traded back up into the first to get him)
3rd Round - S Charles Godfrey (quality is a hot debate topic, I'm a detractor)
3rd Round) - LB Dan Connor (signed with Cowboys, no longer has to tell people his last name isn't "Morgan")
5th Round - TE Gary Barnidge (another debatable one, has shown flashes but not yet a consistent contributor)
6th Round - DT Nick Hayden (uuuummm...yeah)
7th Round - DE Hilee Taylor (this will be the year he breaks ou...oh, wait he's gone)
7th Round - T Geoff Schwartz (wasn't re-signed, backup for the Vikes at the moment, teammates with Kalil's brother)
7th Round - G Mackenzy Bernadeau (with Connor in Dallas, gave up the first official sack of the 2012 season)

2007

1st Round - LB Jon Beason (missed him big-time last year)
2nd Round - WR Dwayne Jarrett (somewhere trying to pass a breathalyzer)
2nd Round - C Ryan Kalil (fantastic player, not so great as a psychic)
3rd Round - DE Charles Johnson (getting paid a lot of money)
4th Round - WR Ryne Robinson (looked good before injury)
5th Round - TE Dante Rosario (was never as good as people thought, currently a Charger, ironically enough)
5th Round - LB Tim Shaw (decent special teamer who's bounced around, currently in Tennessee)
7th Round - DB C.J. Wilson (gone, looked like he had potential but didn't pan out)


Bottom Line: If you want to build a franchise "The Steeler Way" then your drafts have to be way more hit than miss. Hurney is average at best, mediocre at worst. And the accumulation of draft day misses is starting to put us in a hole.

#28 SIGCHI222

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 09:51 PM

Just wanted to post so that my sig is seen more than once a week.

#29 panther4life

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:05 PM

A few years back I posted a thread about how he has an unfortunate tendency to build around the wrong people. The context of that particular thread was his putting the 'transition tag' on DeShaun Foster. Sadly, the decision making hasn't improved much since.

And it's not just Everette Brown he traded up for. There's also Jeff Otah (more forgivable but still bad) and Armanti Edwards (pretty well unforgivable at this point).

Add in that just a few weeks ago - in a discussion about Don Gregory - I looked over the last five drafts before 2012. Here's what I found.



Bottom Line: If you want to build a franchise "The Steeler Way" then your drafts have to be way more hit than miss. Hurney is average at best, mediocre at worst. And the accumulation of draft day misses is starting to put us in a hole.



You mentioned the Steelers. and our 07-11 drafts. Heres what the Steelers have done in the same time frame.





POSITION SCHOOL 1 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State 2 63 Marcus Gilbert T Florida 3 95 Curtis Brown DB Texas 4 128 Cortez Allen DB The Citadel 5 162 Chris Carter LB Fresno State 6 196 Keith Williams G Nebraska 7 232 Baron Batch RB Texas Tech 2010 - PITTSBURGH STEELERS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida 2 52 Jason Worilds LB Virginia Tech 3 82 Emmanuel Sanders WR Southern Methodist 4 116 Thaddeus Gibson LB Ohio State 5 151 Chris Scott T Tennessee 5 164 Crezdon Butler DB Clemson 5 166 Stevenson Sylvester LB Utah 6 188 Jonathan Dwyer RB Georgia Tech 6 195 Antonio Brown WR Central Michigan 7 242 Doug Worthington DE Ohio State 2009 - PITTSBURGH STEELERS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 32 Ziggy Hood DT Missouri 3 79 Kraig Urbik T Wisconsin 3 84 Mike Wallace WR Mississippi 3 96 Keenan Lewis DB Oregon State 5 168 Joe Burnett DB Central Florida 5 169 Frank Summers RB Nevada-Las Vegas 6 205 Ra'Shon Harris DT Oregon 7 226 A.Q. Shipley C Penn State 7 241 David Johnson TE Arkansas State 2008 - PITTSBURGH STEELERS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois 2 53 Limas Sweed WR Texas 3 88 Bruce Davis LB UCLA 4 130 Tony Hills T Texas 5 156 Dennis Dixon QB Oregon 6 188 Mike Humpal OLB Iowa 6 194 Ryan Mundy FS West Virginia 2007 - PITTSBURGH STEELERS RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL 1 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State 2 46 LaMarr Woodley LB Michigan 3 77 Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota 4 112 Daniel Sepulveda P Baylor 4 132 Ryan McBean DE Oklahoma State 5 156 Cameron Stephenson G Rutgers 5 170 William Gay CB Louisville 7 227 Dallas Baker WR Florida

http://www.nfl.com/d...=3900&type=team (use the link its much more legible).

Does that list really look much better?
Theirs is highlighted by Timmons,Woodley, Mendenhall,Mike Wallace,A. Brown and Pouncey

VS. Beason,Kalil,Johnson,Stewart,Lafell, Hardy and Cam. we managed this in spite of wasting a 2nd on Edwards and a first on Brown..and don't forget we got Olsen for a 3rd too.

and for good measure heres how their entire roster was complied. https://docs.google....d=3&output=html

#30 Floppin

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:27 PM

Never said that about Fiametta.

McClain is now with the Pats. We will see.


Hate to break it to you, but McClain was cut from the pats about three days ago.

#31 panther4life

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:28 PM

Just to be clear heres what our draft picks have netted us from 07-11 that are still members of the team. 20 picks a piece and 8 starters a piece in same time frame in spite of the Edwards,Otah, and Brown trade's which occurred in same time frame.
(starters in bold)


Beason
Kalil
Johnson
Stewart
Godfrey

Barnidge
Martin
Munnerlyn
Clausen
Lafell
Edwards
Hardy
Gettis
Cam
Fua
Hogan
Pilares
Zach Williams
Lee Ziemba
Olsen via trade

Over the same time frame heres the Steelers(starters in Bold)
Lawrence Timmons
Lamar Woodley
Rashard Mendenhall

Ryan Mundy
Ziggy Hood
Mike Wallace
Keenan Lewis
David Johnson
Maurkice Pouncey
Jason Worilds
Emmanuel Sanders
Stevenson Sylvester
Jonathan Dwyer
Antonio Brown
Cameron Heyward
Marcus Gilbert
Curtis Brown
Chris Carter
Baron Batch
Cortez Allen

#32 Mr. Scot

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 11:19 PM

Godfrey's nothing to brag that much about. Neither is Hardy. LaFell is decent but still not there yet. Johnson is ridiculously overpaid even given last weekend.

Kalil, Stewart and Beason are good, but do you think anyone outside of Pantherland would take them over their Steeler equivalents?

And to be clear, the reason I went back to 2007 originally was because I was looking at Don Gregory's tenure. Take a look back further (especially 2005) and it continues.

If you want a truly depressing exercise though, look back at some of the picks that were still on the board when we made some of those choices.

#33 Cyberjag

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:37 AM

Anyone want to take a stab at how our team would be doing with the Steelers' coaching staff and locker room tradition?

#34 DaCityKats

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:54 AM

Over the same time frame heres the Steelers(starters in Bold)
Lawrence Timmons
Lamar Woodley
Rashard Mendenhall

Ryan Mundy
Ziggy Hood
Mike Wallace
Keenan Lewis
David Johnson
Maurkice Pouncey
Jason Worilds
Emmanuel Sanders
Stevenson Sylvester
Jonathan Dwyer
Antonio Brown
Cameron Heyward
Marcus Gilbert
Curtis Brown
Chris Carter
Baron Batch
Cortez Allen


Emmanuel Sanders is the #3 WR and considering how much teams run 3 wides is a starter. Marcus Gilbert is the starting RT. would love to have their scouting director as a GM.

#35 panther4life

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:11 AM

Godfrey's nothing to brag that much about. Neither is Hardy. LaFell is decent but still not there yet. Johnson is ridiculously overpaid even given last weekend.

Kalil, Stewart and Beason are good, but do you think anyone outside of Pantherland would take them over their Steeler equivalents?

And to be clear, the reason I went back to 2007 originally was because I was looking at Don Gregory's tenure. Take a look back further (especially 2005) and it continues.

If you want a truly depressing exercise though, look back at some of the picks that were still on the board when we made some of those choices.


I just pointed out the starters only reason the likes of Godfrey and Keenan Lewis were mentioned.

I think everyone would take Kalil and Stewart over Pouncey and Mendenhall all day every day. Go back to 05 for the Steelers and it gets worst for them too. Its hard to compare Beason to their LB's. But are you insuating he was bad a pick now??

Ziggy Hood is nothing to brag about for them. Neither is Keenan Lewis. They are in danger of losing their best offensive weapon next year in Mike Wallace because of the Contract given to Antonio Brown.

So you you think Mendenhall and Pouncey are better than Stewart and Kalili...Unreal. People get on certain agenda's and make ludicrous statements to justify their unreasonable stance and a comment like that is a perfect example.

Lastly you think CJ is grossly overpaid. Do you think thats because Hurney offered more than he had to retain him? Losing him would have been a huge blow and even those who lead the Hurney hate parade have mentioned that it was the right move. BTW since he signed that Contract he has more sacks than Julius Peppers and 90% of the other starting DE's in the league.

#36 jarhead

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:05 AM

Hard to find a GM that bats 1.000 on draft picks. Hurney does better than most on the picks in the early rounds, which is a good thing, but he doesn't play Free Agency like he used to, which may not be. That could be on orders, no one is ever going to say.

The three biggest impacts he's had on the organization is hiring Fox, drafting Cam, and hiring Rivera.

Three biggest mistakes were Everette Brown, the whole Peppers thing, and losing Jenkins.

And he's on his own hot seat, JR's never going to fire him.


Accord to Bill Polian a GM should hit at least 50% on draft picks and I read where Hurney is hitting in the 45% range.After listening to him yesterday on radio 610 I think he is delusional.When ask about our secondary he defended the level of talent both as a unit and specifically Naka and Josh Norman.Now I know he has to defend individual players but not to the extent he did.If you think about it what the hell is he thinking a 5th round pick from a weak division that missed preseason can start at cb in the NFL?I think the guy will be good if his confidence is not shattered by the end of this season.On Naka he stated it was only one bad play that defined his effort against Atlanta and felt other than that he played well.I am sorry but this guy is not a good starting FS.......dont care how you slice it or dice it.From the interview it sounded as though he was about ready to fire himself