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ncbobcat

Panthers drafted no significant contributors

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I think we are weak at DT. I think Vincent can be upgraded. We are settling with Jerrett again. Considering Peps may not be back, we could have used another DE. More depth at C/G would have been nice, relying on two 7th rounders from last year.

Again, not many issues, some that could back to bite us if the 'perfect storm' type of unfortunately events occur.

As far as who I liked better, I would have to go back and see what players were available where, but I can assure you a couple of better DTs, interior OL, WR were on the board when we selected who we did.

I hope all of these guys work out and become starters, but I don't see the immediate impact that one would like.

The one guy I can't guage is Martin. I can't decide if I really like that pick or not. If Peps stays and plays, I think Martin may be the one player that may impact our rookie class, not Brown.

Agree with your comments above, however every issue was addressed in the draft except for WR:

1. I think we are weak at DT....drafted DR in 3rd. Some question the one we took, but he is smaller and quick...a Meeks kind of guy.

2 I think Vincent can be upgraded...not sure I totally agree here, but Robinson was rated as the top Guard by many experts.

3. Considering Peps may not be back, we could have used another DE...we drafted Brown in the 2nd and got a 1st round graded player

4. More depth at C/G would have been nice...again, drafted top Guard in draft.

Therfore, every complaint you made was addressed in the draft....not to mention that we also picked up our Nicle DB in Martin.

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My .02 on our draft strategy:

While we didn't have any emergency needs, when Brown dropped into the forties, Meeks went into hyperdrive to convince Hurney/Fox that he could turn him into the next Mathis/Freeny. With the Peppers situation it made perfect sense to attempt to find a trading partner. However, WHY didn't we use our 2nd/3rd to trade up (almost an exact draft chart match). Instead "Whimpy" (I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today) Hurney decided to trade our next year's #1 pick again. My guess is that they had already identified Martin as their HAD TO HAVE pick. We now have 3 of the top 5 TEs in our division and we are going to have to have someone who is big and fast to run with them down the middle of the field. Between Beason, Godfrey and now Martin, we will be in pretty good shape. Additionally, With our cap pressure we can't be assured of being able to sign Robertson etc. for out DT rotation, so they probably felt they had to save their 3rd for this purpose. Irvin certainly wasn't the BPA, but hopefully he's good enough to give us help keep the starters fresh.

We did not trade up as you suggested due to the fact that we also needed to draft a young DB to fill the Nickle back role...and a DT to add to the rotation.

Under the trade that was made, we got three immediate improvements this year....under your proposal, we would only have Brown.

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Did they miss the playoffs sherlock??? Doesn't matter if it is by one game or 5. Didn't know almost counted in football. This isn't horseshoes. We missed the playoffs by one game in 2004. Doesn't matter what the record was it was still a fail.

As for the 14 players it was 5 years ago and they don't keep info for that but I remember:

Steve Smith pro bowl receiver

Stephen Davis pro bowl running back

Deshaun Foster second running back

Rod Smart third running back

Brad Hoover fourth running back

Kris Jenkins all pro DT

Travelle Wharton

Jessie Armstead (5 time probowler linebacker)

Shane Burton defensive tackle

Kavika Pittman

Drew Carter

and 3 others.

Funny you didn't remember any of these guys. I guess you weren't a Panther fan back then. When did you hop on the bandwagon. Maybe you should go back to the Patriots since they are such winners.

Boy you are dense.

18 Drew Carter, SE 6-3 200 9/5/81 R Ohio St.

25 Joey Harris, RB 5-10 205 12/18/80 R Purdue

26 DeShaun Foster, RB 6-0 222 1/10/80 3 UCLA

31 William Hampton, CB 5-10 190 3/7/75 3 Murray St. (KY)

32 Rod Smart, RB 5-11 201 1/9/77 4 Western Kentucky

39 Damien Richardson, S 6-1 210 4/3/76 7 Arizona St

42 Travares Tillman, S 6-1 190 10/8/77 4 Georgia Tech

48 Stephen Davis, RB 6-0 230 3/1/74 9 Auburn

59 Jessie Armstead, LB 6-1 237 10/26/70 12 Miami Fla

77 Kris Jenkins, DT 6-4 335 8/3/79 4 Maryland

79 Doug Brzezinski, G 6-4 305 3/11/76 6 Boston College

89 Steve Smith, WR 5-9 185 5/12/79 4 Utah

92 Kavika Pittman, DE 6-6 273 10/9/74 9 McNeese St.

RESERVE/PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM

------------------------------------

72 Bruce Nelson, G 6-5 301 5/12/79 2 Iowa

You won't admit when you are beat, dude. You should have Googled the actual IR list (may have helped your arguement). We were missing Smitty, Jenx, Davis and Foster--Staters. You can whine about all the second string guys all you want. Did all of those guys go on IR Week 1? Were most of those guys (if not all) of those guys on there when we won 6 games in a row in the second half of the season? So we could have been winning all along with guys plugged in holes.

RBs were the area we were hurt at most and Goings had 3 or 4 100 yard games; he stepped up. Moose posted the best stats of his career.

So if we lose 4 starters this year, we should fold like a lawn chair, right? Guys did what they were supposed to, but as a team we didn't get it done.

Oh and BTW, HOMER, I'll take 11-5 evey year with the minuscule odds of missing the playoffs. TWO times in playoff history--HISTORY--ah, I'm communicating to a brick wall here. Nice chatting with you.

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Therfore, every complaint you made was addressed in the draft....not to mention that we also picked up our Nicle DB in Martin.

Addressed, yes, but preferred player and spot of selection, no.

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you may want to look at us being blind homers but you are just as or moreso blind and closed minded if you think that the panthers are doomed to fail next year because they haven't had 2 winning seasons back to back.

THAT is true closed mindedness and i think you for showing us what blindness really is.

i sure am glad i don't have to go into this season feeling the dread that these sad people are who think that the panthers are going to fail. makes being a fan a lot more fun.

I guess you aren't a total homer because you actaully criticized the team, albeit kicking on the people no longer here.

I agree the coaching could have been better. However, you can't blame the Trgo for the lack of pass rush from the D-Line, especially down the stretch. That was my main concern. The interior was horrid. That lack of pressure gave QBs all day to pick apart the secondary.

Will Meeks get more out of the same group of starters? I don't know. I hope so. You guys seem CONVINCED already. That is the kind of blind faith I see in these posts. Does that mean I'm a pessimist? No, that means I'm not going to get a warm & fuzzy--YET--about a product I've not seen this year.

Tell me one thing--especially those thinking me not bouncing off the walls in giddiness even before OTAs--Are you so convinced with the offseason moves (including coaching changes) that you'd sell a prized possession(s) for Super Bowl tickets right now? If the answer is no, then I guess you are a pessimist.

I HOPE the Panthers win the Super Bowl, but I'm not banking on it now based off a couple coaching moves and, in my opinion, a mediocre draft.

We ARE relying on the same team (starters) and hoping the new coaching will improve the results. Time will tell. I can say one thing, August seems like an lifetime away from now. :D

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I guess you aren't a total homer because you actaully criticized the team, albeit kicking on the people no longer here.

I agree the coaching could have been better. However, you can't blame the Trgo for the lack of pass rush from the D-Line, especially down the stretch. That was my main concern. The interior was horrid. That lack of pressure gave QBs all day to pick apart the secondary.

Will Meeks get more out of the same group of starters? I don't know. I hope so. You guys seem CONVINCED already. That is the kind of blind faith I see in these posts. Does that mean I'm a pessimist? No, that means I'm not going to get a warm & fuzzy--YET--about a product I've not seen this year.

Tell me one thing--especially those thinking me not bouncing off the walls in giddiness even before OTAs--Are you so convinced with the offseason moves (including coaching changes) that you'd sell a prized possession(s) for Super Bowl tickets right now? If the answer is no, then I guess you are a pessimist.

I HOPE the Panthers win the Super Bowl, but I'm not banking on it now based off a couple coaching moves and, in my opinion, a mediocre draft.

We ARE relying on the same team (starters) and hoping the new coaching will improve the results. Time will tell. I can say one thing, August seems like an lifetime away from now. :D

It didn't matter who we drafted we would still be relying on the same starters.

The only question marks were Nickel, online depth, DT depth. Marshall is the starter, Vincent is the starter, Lewis and Kemo are the starters. No one we drafted was going to take those spots away. It's not like we have bad players in those spots now.

We also shored up some area's that can be a problem in the future. FB (hoover is getting up there), Backup RB (we still don't know if we will be able to resign Dwill after his contract is up.)

As for taking the FB where we did, how do you pass up the best FB in the draft (who has speed (4.6), good hands, and is a great lead blocker) at that spot, he can contribute immediately on ST and in a couple of years should end up being one of the best if not the best FB's in the league.

We drafted for all the needs we have and filled them nicely. Still can sign a FA if we need to for backup help at DT.

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Boy you are dense.

18 Drew Carter, SE 6-3 200 9/5/81 R Ohio St.

25 Joey Harris, RB 5-10 205 12/18/80 R Purdue

26 DeShaun Foster, RB 6-0 222 1/10/80 3 UCLA

31 William Hampton, CB 5-10 190 3/7/75 3 Murray St. (KY)

32 Rod Smart, RB 5-11 201 1/9/77 4 Western Kentucky

39 Damien Richardson, S 6-1 210 4/3/76 7 Arizona St

42 Travares Tillman, S 6-1 190 10/8/77 4 Georgia Tech

48 Stephen Davis, RB 6-0 230 3/1/74 9 Auburn

59 Jessie Armstead, LB 6-1 237 10/26/70 12 Miami Fla

77 Kris Jenkins, DT 6-4 335 8/3/79 4 Maryland

79 Doug Brzezinski, G 6-4 305 3/11/76 6 Boston College

89 Steve Smith, WR 5-9 185 5/12/79 4 Utah

92 Kavika Pittman, DE 6-6 273 10/9/74 9 McNeese St.

RESERVE/PHYSICALLY UNABLE TO PERFORM

------------------------------------

72 Bruce Nelson, G 6-5 301 5/12/79 2 Iowa

You won't admit when you are beat, dude. You should have Googled the actual IR list (may have helped your arguement). We were missing Smitty, Jenx, Davis and Foster--Staters. You can whine about all the second string guys all you want. Did all of those guys go on IR Week 1? Were most of those guys (if not all) of those guys on there when we won 6 games in a row in the second half of the season? So we could have been winning all along with guys plugged in holes.

RBs were the area we were hurt at most and Goings had 3 or 4 100 yard games; he stepped up. Moose posted the best stats of his career.

So if we lose 4 starters this year, we should fold like a lawn chair, right? Guys did what they were supposed to, but as a team we didn't get it done.

Oh and BTW, HOMER, I'll take 11-5 evey year with the minuscule odds of missing the playoffs. TWO times in playoff history--HISTORY--ah, I'm communicating to a brick wall here. Nice chatting with you.

I think you had something to say before you went with the personal attacks. Could have left them out and still had a good discussion. I looked for the info and didn't find it so thanks for posting.

As for starters it isn't just whether they start but who they are. The Patriots lost Brady, gee just one starter, but it was crucial so it means alot. Losing Smitty, Davis and Jenkins was huge. Over 65% of our offense in 2003 went through those Smith and Davis in our "feed the stud" mentality. Armstead was a key linebacker free agent pickup who was supposed to start but got hurt before the season started. Brezinsky was a starter and Nelson was expected to start as well. Seems to me that is 6 starters including your number 1 receiver, your top 4 running backs, two of your starting offensive linemen and arguably the best DT in the league at the time.

That doesn't hurt or change the likelihood of winning?

As for NE they did well last year- surprising so. Still according to many posters here, if you don't win the Super Bowl every year it was a waste of a year. Not sure I agree but......

The issue here seems to be you think you are in a contest to win some sort of prize or contest. I thought it was a discussion to see if we disagree or agree. Wasn't that your premise? Seems to me that is okay as long as we agree with you. If not then you go with personal attacks.

If you had this information then why not share it to begin with as part of the discussion.

This has obviously strayed far from the original topic so we can keep it up or return to the discussion or agree to disagree. Frankly my ego isn't tied up in whatever happens nor do I think I have to win or get in the last word. We could agree to discuss the merits of this without personal attacks going forward.

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what? they say a team with 21 of 22 starters returning didn't draft a signficant contributor?

DAMN YOU

not to mention a 12-4 team, thats a shame.

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After reading through all of this, I'll have to go back to Mr Scott's post. After the last few years I've learned let the plan play out. I didn't understand the Kalil pick.... Now I do, I didn't understand the Marshall pick.... Now I do... I didn't understand the Stewart pick, still debating it in my head, but I'm sure it'll play out. I think this year’s draft class could be the same.

Immediate impact players are destined for a team with "needs" Like Scott said the Panthers aren't one of those teams right now. I'm not convinced they take the "BPA" but they do seem to be drafting for the future.

Like all of the other "Jake Haters" I wish they'd take a franchise QB......... But I have to admit if nothing else Jake has bought them time to build up a solid as hell base. 21 of 22 off of a 12-4 year with prospects in the wing is about as good as I could ask for.

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I We could agree to discuss the merits of this without personal attacks going forward.

Agreed. Sorry, but the "Einstein" thing kind got it started. Nothing personal and I never truely got upset.

We're cool. :D

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