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I'm an independent moderate - convince me to vote for obama or romney.


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#1 PhillyB

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

I come from a long line of hardline fundamentalist religious conservatives, which cues you in on my sociological background. after a long stint in college republicans i quit college, pushed my xenophobic ideals aside after an existential crisis, shook the etch-a-sketch and took off on a wandering journey around the world, starting with a fresh sheet of paper, deciding what i believe is true about this universe apart from the mindless socialization and ideological shepherding.

politically, you need only know that i am a registered independent, i believe (at the moment, based on what i know) that a fully socialist society will not work because of human nature (which is the same reason i believe unregulated capitalism and corporatism will not work.) i do not care for political grandstanding and partisan cheering.

i would like to vote for jill stein, but that's not going to happen. i've heard enough criticism of gary johnson to question the wisdom of casting a vote for him. i prefer obama over romney based on what i know at this juncture.

using actual points, convince me to vote one way or another, and we will open a dialogue.

#2 googoodan

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:16 PM

If you prefer Obama over Romney at this point, no one will change your mind.
Jill Stein is a nutjob. I believe people only say her name to sound cool that they prefer a candidate who doesn't have a shot. Gary Johnson has ideas but he's also a nutjob.
O and R are both hot air spewing douche nozzles. How either of them got this far in their political careers is a national tragedy IMO.

I havent cast a vote for president since 2000. That was back when I thought I was cool because I knew who Ralph Nader was and I knew what Nader pins were.

#3 PhillyB

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:23 PM

If you prefer Obama over Romney at this point, no one will change your mind.


if that were the case i wouldn't have bothered posting this.

most people refuse to acknowledge the nature of socialization of value systems and the role it plays in epistemology and bias. most people adopt a paradigm early in life and filter new information through it from there on out, rather than continually building that paradigm with the acquisition of new information.

i am not one of those people.

#4 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:37 PM

using actual points, convince me to vote one way or another, and we will open a dialogue.


If you prefer Obama over Romney at this point, no one will change your mind.
Jill Stein is a nutjob. I believe people only say her name to sound cool that they prefer a candidate who doesn't have a shot. Gary Johnson has ideas but he's also a nutjob.
O and R are both hot air spewing douche nozzles. How either of them got this far in their political careers is a national tragedy IMO.


wow lots of "actual points" here, good post

#5 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:45 PM

here's a point that i think biden made: the president is responsible for appointing supreme court justices. who do you want to make that choice? more specifically, how much do you care about a woman's right to an abortion?

#6 PhillyB

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

here's a point that i think biden made: the president is responsible for appointing supreme court justices. who do you want to make that choice? more specifically, how much do you care about a woman's right to an abortion?


biologically speaking i don't think abortion is an issue, and frankly i'm annoyed by the people who make it an issue solely because there's a poetic verse in psalms that says god knitted babies together in the womb piece by piece, the literal translation of which is the philosophical basis for being opposed to it. GOD MADE IT WITH MAGIC HOW DARE YOU END LIFE

life is not created, it is passed on, and that's a fundamental biological concept that fundies refuse to understand.

that said i see the merits of erring on the side of caution and not marginalizing the possibility that life does begin sometime in the womb (perhaps not at conception, but before birth) and recognizing that if we one day discover evidence that supports irrefutably the attribute of life before birth, mankind will be guilty of an atrocity unmatched by any genocide or war. as such it is potentially a human rights issue over a women's rights issue.

this one of a number of issues upon which i'm not sure where i stand, and i am trying to separate myself from ideologues with an axe to grind while doing the research.



it's not an issue i'm voting on this election though, so i'm not sure it directly relates to the discussion at hand.

#7 PhillyB

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:58 PM

but you're right, that is a critical point. i'm concerned fundamentally about the use of literal biblical interpretation in social systems, and i honestly think we'd live in an iron-clad theocracy with little discernible difference between it and sharia law if southern fundies had their way.

the question begs itself, then, whether or not romney is socially conservative enough to appoint a radical.

#8 googoodan

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:13 AM

if that were the case i wouldn't have bothered posting this.

most people refuse to acknowledge the nature of socialization of value systems and the role it plays in epistemology and bias. most people adopt a paradigm early in life and filter new information through it from there on out, rather than continually building that paradigm with the acquisition of new information.

i am not one of those people.


Well you know what you're getting with Obama.
With Romney, there are three posibilities: the character the left has created, the character Romney has created, and then the real guy.

Neither of them apparently have the backbone to sway your opinion, let alone lead the country. Issues such as abortion are dead ends - both parties have had control of the house, senate and presidency in the last ten years. Have there been changes? Sure, the threat of defunding a certain private organization comes along every few years, but has it happened yet? Do you really expect that to change?

For me and probably most of the country, the main issue is the economy. Romney spouts his BS plan while Obama only points out the flaws in Romney's plan. Can anyone tell me Obama's second term plan? Romney's plan will not get anywhere in Congress. Even if it does, business owners, who have spent years trying to comply with new Obamaregs will spend years again trying to undo those changes while trying to comply with Romneyregs. Yay, delay a real recovery even further.

#9 cdandi1

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:21 AM

http://votesmart.org/voteeasy/

Go this site..and try your best to answer each question regarding some of the major issues at hand and see which candidate you match up with best.

I am not sure the source of the site, and the credibility. It has been passed around the university here to help young folk who are not quite sure who to vote for.

I am not saying you are young or even need this site. But it might be an interesting start to see the basics.

#10 googoodan

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 12:32 AM

http://votesmart.org/voteeasy/

Go this site..and try your best to answer each question regarding some of the major issues at hand and see which candidate you match up with best.

I am not sure the source of the site, and the credibility. It has been passed around the university here to help young folk who are not quite sure who to vote for.

I am not saying you are young or even need this site. But it might be an interesting start to see the basics.


my best match was virgil goode at 76%

e: lol reading his wiki page.... dont agree anywhere

#11 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:08 AM

but you're right, that is a critical point. i'm concerned fundamentally about the use of literal biblical interpretation in social systems, and i honestly think we'd live in an iron-clad theocracy with little discernible difference between it and sharia law if southern fundies had their way.

the question begs itself, then, whether or not romney is socially conservative enough to appoint a radical.


take a look at his advisors and then tell me that he wouldn't appoint scalia 2.0. additionally, you can actually see the justices obama has appointed. you know they aren't going to take us back to the 1800s. with romney, at best, he might not. still appears to be a pretty clear distinction.

obama has continued a lot of republican bullshit since being elected and rightfully deserves criticism for, in ways, being bush3, but poo romney might as well be GWB. i could be wrong but you at least appear to lean somewhat left of center, and if you're interested in voting for the lesser of two evils (i am not) then it seems like you align more closely with the president.

#12 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 02:08 AM

my best match was virgil goode at 76%

e: lol reading his wiki page.... dont agree anywhere


that's surprising because you definitely strike me as the constitution party type

#13 stirs

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 06:32 AM

Even though you are running from your upbringing, I think you are a smart guy and know for whom you will pull the lever. I think you have doubts though and want folks like Cantrell to reinforce your new found "freedoms". As an old fart, I will tell you that taking a position without your heart following you, is a tough place. I did some traveling, not world wide, (mostly the Rocky Mtns as a hitchhiker) and thought those my enlightened years. Enjoyable as it was, I find that conservative vs liberal is something that a headline, or a thread will not change for you. You are way too smart for this. It is yours my man.

#14 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:41 AM

biologically speaking i don't think abortion is an issue, and frankly i'm annoyed by the people who make it an issue solely because there's a poetic verse in psalms that says god knitted babies together in the womb piece by piece, the literal translation of which is the philosophical basis for being opposed to it. GOD MADE IT WITH MAGIC HOW DARE YOU END LIFE

life is not created, it is passed on, and that's a fundamental biological concept that fundies refuse to understand.

that said i see the merits of erring on the side of caution and not marginalizing the possibility that life does begin sometime in the womb (perhaps not at conception, but before birth) and recognizing that if we one day discover evidence that supports irrefutably the attribute of life before birth, mankind will be guilty of an atrocity unmatched by any genocide or war. as such it is potentially a human rights issue over a women's rights issue.

this one of a number of issues upon which i'm not sure where i stand, and i am trying to separate myself from ideologues with an axe to grind while doing the research.



it's not an issue i'm voting on this election though, so i'm not sure it directly relates to the discussion at hand.


Perhaps one of the best thoughts on the abortion issue I've read Philly, despite your unsurity on the issue, you made some excellent points.

#15 pstall

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 07:54 AM

It comes down to priorities. Start at the top of your list an work down. At least cantrell has thought thru the supreme court choices and for me that's all I ask of people. Think it thru and do your homework instead of going with emotions or the media.
it comes down to the economy for me which can guide most of the social issues based on how its doing.
At least philly you aren't a single issue kind of guy. I'm still not sure who I am voting for either.


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