124 replies to this topic

[Anybodyhome]

You do understand the basic premise that tax payer funded education is not actually free don't you?

I imagine the situation with the college system in California is far more complex than you seem to think it is, but I did look up some information on it. Reagan didn't implement tuition for students in the california college system. He tried, but was defeated. He did implement some fees, which were relatively small. They did increase as time went along, but that was much later. And no governor since, republican or democrat has made any serious effort to eliminate them. California is a very blue state, yet the citizens of the state aren't willing to pay the taxes necessary to fund a no fee/no tuition system of higher education. If you want to blame someone for that, then you should blame the california voters, because its something they don't want. And Reagan did what the voters wanted him to do. Democracy sucks doesn't it.

Ummm, the education system in every state is taxpayer funded from K-12 grades. Are you against taxpayer funded education systems in general? If so, how exactly would you propose putting your kids through the public school system?

The system worked in California for 100 years because corporate tax rates were where they should be relative to their profits, because people paid income taxes based upon what their income was. Reagan was the forefather of the the rich getting richer and the end of those rich paying their fair share of income taxes. It's a pretty easy concept- when corporate taxes and income taxes were an equitable system the state of California flourished and it's higher education system did as well as it's K-12 system.

The utter collapse of the public education system in this country can be directly attributed to the reduction of corporate tax rates and the increasing tax breaks for the rich. It is a simple premise, you're right.

[natty]

So I guess actually being responsible for paying money back when you borrow it is "folksy".

Unlike your generation....which seems to believe that someone else is responsible for your debt.

Cue the 'learned it by watching you' PSA. Who would have thought kids growing up in the 80s and 90s didn't get good lessons in managing debt? The baby boomers sure did a great job with their borrowing practices.



Baby boomer: study hard so you can get into a good college and make something of yourself
Kid: Okay

Baby boomer: just take this student loan, you'll get a good job with a degree
Kid: Okay

Baby boomer: get a job slacker
College grad: your generation tanked the economy, I can't get a job
Baby boomer: damn entitled kids, think they just deserve a job...pay back your loans kid, papa needs to retire

[pstall]

lol not a single one of these fuging republicans actually addressed FFELP or sherrod brown's legislation. 16 replies. not one.

i'm not a republican but i posted this earlier and perhaps it went way over your head. i mean like WAY over.

Pell derivs FTL.

in 2 words and a huddle favorite axiom i responded and broke it all down.

[Delhommey]

Vanilla wafers.

Two words. Over ALL your heads. I win. Suck it!

[pstall]

not really. tranches i know. basically they turned alot of these into what they did with mortgages. slice some and sell to others then bet against some of those slices to hedge.

[King]

Everything should be free. Imagine no possessions.

As socialists have explained it to me, property rights don't exist because property is a human abstraction and, if society can create the idea of property, then society is justified in taking your property away.

[King]

Cue the 'learned it by watching you' PSA. Who would have thought kids growing up in the 80s and 90s didn't get good lessons in managing debt? The baby boomers sure did a great job with their borrowing practices.



Baby boomer: study hard so you can get into a good college and make something of yourself
Kid: Okay

Baby boomer: just take this student loan, you'll get a good job with a degree
Kid: Okay

Baby boomer: get a job slacker
College grad: your generation tanked the economy, I can't get a job
Baby boomer: damn entitled kids, think they just deserve a job...pay back your loans kid, papa needs to retire

I graduate in May and already have a job lined up. No family connections or anything.

Worthless anecdote, but since you were sharing your worthless anecdotes, I thought I'd chime in.

So yeah. Seconding "personal responsibility," as lame as that apparently makes me. If someone makes it harder for you to get a job, work harder.

[YourMomsLover]

I bet Delhommey lives in an Occupy tent.

[pstall]

del ain't that radical

[pstall]

there has been an education bubble for some time. the same guy who was a central figure in the big short book has been saying this for years.

supply and demand does it again. more apprenticeships ->jobs.

[natty]

I graduate in May and already have a job lined up. No family connections or anything.

Worthless anecdote, but since you were sharing your worthless anecdotes, I thought I'd chime in.

So yeah. Seconding "personal responsibility," as lame as that apparently makes me. If someone makes it harder for you to get a job, work harder.

I chose an engineering degree, got a job while still in college and haven't looked back since. Way to completely miss my point though.

[King]

Your point is that it's not college students' fault.

My point is that fault is irrelevant.

If that wasn't your point, then you're not making your point very well.

[Davidson Deac II]

Ummm, the education system in every state is taxpayer funded from K-12 grades. Are you against taxpayer funded education systems in general? If so, how exactly would you propose putting your kids through the public school system?

The system worked in California for 100 years because corporate tax rates were where they should be relative to their profits, because people paid income taxes based upon what their income was. Reagan was the forefather of the the rich getting richer and the end of those rich paying their fair share of income taxes. It's a pretty easy concept- when corporate taxes and income taxes were an equitable system the state of California flourished and it's higher education system did as well as it's K-12 system.

The utter collapse of the public education system in this country can be directly attributed to the reduction of corporate tax rates and the increasing tax breaks for the rich. It is a simple premise, you're right.

The basic flaw in your premise is that we as a nation are spending more per student adjusted for inflation, than we were in 1980. And we are spending a similar amount of our GDP now as we were then (5.5 in 1980 vs 5.4 now). The cuts in corporate tax rates have had no impact on spending for education in the nation as a whole. If there is an impact, its on fiscal health. Unless you are saying that without the tax cuts, we would have spent more on education than we are spending now (which id doubtful) The fact that much of that money being spent is borrowed instead of taxed is irrelevant regarding the quality education received.

So if one accepts your opinion that the education system iin the US has collapsed (and I certainly don't accept it), then I am not sure you can blame tax cuts since there isn't any noticeable impact on spending.
.

[mmmbeans]

Your point is that it's not college students' fault.

My point is that fault is irrelevant.

If that wasn't your point, then you're not making your point very well.

it may be irrelevant on a personal level, it isn't irrelevant when we're talking about systemic ills.

[Anybodyhome]

The basic flaw in your premise is that we as a nation are spending more per student adjusted for inflation, than we were in 1980. And we are spending a similar amount of our GDP now as we were then (5.5 in 1980 vs 5.4 now). The cuts in corporate tax rates have had no impact on spending for education in the nation as a whole. If there is an impact, its on fiscal health. Unless you are saying that without the tax cuts, we would have spent more on education than we are spending now (which id doubtful) The fact that much of that money being spent is borrowed instead of taxed is irrelevant regarding the quality education received.

So if one accepts your opinion that the education system iin the US has collapsed (and I certainly don't accept it), then I am not sure you can blame tax cuts since there isn't any noticeable impact on spending.
.

All you need to do is look at the highest ranked eduaction system in the world and see how they got there. Finland is currently the best education in the world-
"By 2014, the Ministry intends to have legislation in place that will shift full responsibility for polytechnic funding to the government, a change from the current system in which polytechnics negotiate with the government each year to obtain core funding, and must make up the rest of their operating costs from other sources. With this control in place, the government will combine some of these institutions into “large and innovative high-standard competence environments,” present in every province, and programs of study will be focused on ensuring that graduates can begin working in their fields immediately upon graduation."