24 replies to this topic

[Mr. Scot]

Discussion of what's happened/what to do with Newton has brought up a philosophical question for me, the answer to which likely says a lot about how you'd approach developing a young QB.

Take a look at some past QB failures...

- Ryan Leaf

- JaMarcus Russell

- David Carr

- Jimmy Clausen

In your opinion, what percentage of the failures of these guys - and others like them - is due to poor coaching, and how much is due to the players themselves just not having "what it takes" to be an NFL quarterback?

Just to be clear, I'm not limiting the discussion to those four. They're just examples. And no, I'm not saying Cam Newton is a bust or lumping him in with those guys, so don't bother starting that stupid argument either. It's a philosophical question.

Also, for the purposes of this discussion, "50-50" is not an option. The closest I'll accept is 60-40.

[carolinarolls]

add weinke

[Mr. Scot]

add weinke

You just did.

Like I said, it's not limited to these guys. Pretty much any name you want to throw in as an example to make your point is fair game.

Obviously, the answer will vary somewhat case-by-case, but I'm looking for a general number here.

[Gabeking]

The first number is the player and the second is the coaching:

Leaf and Russell were 80-20

Carr 65-35

Clausen 60-40

And just for the hell of it cam RIGHT NOW is 35-65 (in my opinion)

Edit: forgot my basic math fundamentals for a sec lol

[Mr. Scot]

The first number is the player and the second is the coaching:

Leaf and Russell were 80-20

Carr 65-45

Clausen 60-40

And just for the hell of it cam RIGHT NOW is 45-65 (in my opinion)

Check your math.

[Khaki Lackey]

Check your math.

Carr and Cam both give 110%.

[TheRed]

I would say (player/coaches) 80/20 for Russell and Leaf.

Carr I don't know, I lean 70/30. Same for Clausen.

[carolinarolls]

to make this ranking even sparsely legitimate you have to consider the state of the teams they started for, the state of the team's they played on their rookie schedule, the similarity of the offense to that of their collegiate career, the viability of the overall offense to be executed with or without the new QB in question including the familiarity level of surrounding and complimentary players as well as the OC's ability to command the play-calling and preparation.

Once that is done, none of these situations are comparable in the slightest

[Bj-Monster23]

Discussion of what's happened/what to do with Newton has brought up a philosophical question for me, the answer to which likely says a lot about how you'd approach developing a young QB.

Take a look at some past QB failures...

- Ryan Leaf

- JaMarcus Russell

- David Carr

- Jimmy Clausen

In your opinion, what percentage of the failures of these guys - and others like them - is due to poor coaching, and how much is due to the players themselves just not having "what it takes" to be an NFL quarterback?

Just to be clear, I'm not limiting the discussion to those four. They're just examples. And no, I'm not saying Cam Newton is a bust or lumping him in with those guys, so don't bother starting that stupid argument either. It's a philosophical question.

Also, for the purposes of this discussion, "50-50" is not an option. The closest I'll accept is 60-40.

JaMarcus Russell failure was due to his self. I don't think what happen to him was due to coaching. It was due to the fact that he was a lazy individual and he basically robbed the Raiders in a sense.

David Carr failure was definitely due to coaching and weak personnel. He really just ended up in a bad situation with a expansion team.

Ryan Leaf failure was due to mental toughness. His lack of mental toughness falls on coaching if you ask me. I feel that coaches are suppose to groom players whether its mentally or physically.

Jimmy Clausen down fall is he just lacks the physical attributes to play QB. The jury is kind of still out on him because we haven't seen him play since 2010. So I don't really know.

[Navy_football]

Discussion of what's happened/what to do with Newton has brought up a philosophical question for me, the answer to which likely says a lot about how you'd approach developing a young QB.

Take a look at some past QB failures...

- Ryan Leaf

- JaMarcus Russell

- David Carr

- Jimmy Clausen

In your opinion, what percentage of the failures of these guys - and others like them - is due to poor coaching, and how much is due to the players themselves just not having "what it takes" to be an NFL quarterback?

Just to be clear, I'm not limiting the discussion to those four. They're just examples. And no, I'm not saying Cam Newton is a bust or lumping him in with those guys, so don't bother starting that stupid argument either. It's a philosophical question.

Also, for the purposes of this discussion, "50-50" is not an option. The closest I'll accept is 60-40.

I think coaching plays a bigger role in a QBs early success than anything - I would say as high as 75%. It's ultimately up to the coach to recognize weaknesses and strengths and put the team in the best position to succeed. Of course there are those few that overcome mediocre coaching, but the majority of the greats have had coaches that were just as skilled.

Over time, I think it comes down to work ethic and the willingness to do what it takes to be successful that dictates a player's future - regardless of what position they play.

[Gabeking]

Check your math.

poo lol my bad, staying up all night for Black Friday shopping does wonders for your brain, am I right?

[MadHatter]

JaMarcus Russell failure was due to his self. I don't think what happen to him was due to coaching. It was due to the fact that he was a lazy individual and he basically robbed the Raiders in a sense.

David Carr failure was definitely due to coaching and weak personnel. He really just ended up in a bad situation with a expansion team.

Ryan Leaf failure was due to mental toughness. His lack of mental toughness falls on coaching if you ask me. I feel that coaches are suppose to groom players whether its mentally or physically.

Jimmy Clausen down fall is he just lacks the physical attributes to play QB. The jury is kind of still out on him because we haven't seen him play since 2010. So I don't really know.

Pretty accurate anslysis

[Feldman9000]

- Ryan Leaf - This one is hard. He had everything and I suffered through this. His failure was all on him, and you can back that up by where his life has gone. Throw in Todd Marinovich to this too. The coaching couldn't save him, nothing could on this. Veteran leadership, and I think the alt QB at that time was Jim Harbaugh, haha if not Craig Welihan. (spelling?)

- JaMarcus Russell - Bust from day one. I never saw his talent besides an arm. If this was anyone other than the Raiders with the #1 that year, he wouldn't have gone #1. No one wanted to trade up, this guy was dumb as poo.

- David Carr - Played in a spread-timing offense in college, and that does not transfer to the NFL. Same thing with Alex Smith.

- Jimmy Clausen - Lacked the tools needed, this is why Buffalo passed on him and went with Spiller and no one but us wanted him. Another Hurney debacle. I'm sure with good coaching, he could be a serviceable backup.

- Vince Young - He had the coaching and the tools but he was dumb and egotistical. A lot like Leaf, he hurt himself.

- Matt Leinart - lacked proper coaching, and in the end lacks the talent.

[CRA]

Look at the production of those guys after their first 26 games vs Cam.....then realize this has nothing to do with our QB.

Team issue.

[CRA]

30 passing TDs, 18 rushing, 7500 yards.....

26 games in none of those guys listed are even in Cam's ballpark. Comparison like this are garbage.