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Mr. Scot

Quarterbacks and Coaching

25 posts in this topic

Check your math.

poo lol my bad, staying up all night for Black Friday shopping does wonders for your brain, am I right?

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JaMarcus Russell failure was due to his self. I don't think what happen to him was due to coaching. It was due to the fact that he was a lazy individual and he basically robbed the Raiders in a sense.

David Carr failure was definitely due to coaching and weak personnel. He really just ended up in a bad situation with a expansion team.

Ryan Leaf failure was due to mental toughness. His lack of mental toughness falls on coaching if you ask me. I feel that coaches are suppose to groom players whether its mentally or physically.

Jimmy Clausen down fall is he just lacks the physical attributes to play QB. The jury is kind of still out on him because we haven't seen him play since 2010. So I don't really know.

Pretty accurate anslysis

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- Ryan Leaf - This one is hard. He had everything and I suffered through this. His failure was all on him, and you can back that up by where his life has gone. Throw in Todd Marinovich to this too. The coaching couldn't save him, nothing could on this. Veteran leadership, and I think the alt QB at that time was Jim Harbaugh, haha if not Craig Welihan. (spelling?)

- JaMarcus Russell - Bust from day one. I never saw his talent besides an arm. If this was anyone other than the Raiders with the #1 that year, he wouldn't have gone #1. No one wanted to trade up, this guy was dumb as poo.

- David Carr - Played in a spread-timing offense in college, and that does not transfer to the NFL. Same thing with Alex Smith.

- Jimmy Clausen - Lacked the tools needed, this is why Buffalo passed on him and went with Spiller and no one but us wanted him. Another Hurney debacle. I'm sure with good coaching, he could be a serviceable backup.

- Vince Young - He had the coaching and the tools but he was dumb and egotistical. A lot like Leaf, he hurt himself.

- Matt Leinart - lacked proper coaching, and in the end lacks the talent.

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Look at the production of those guys after their first 26 games vs Cam.....then realize this has nothing to do with our QB.

Team issue.

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30 passing TDs, 18 rushing, 7500 yards.....

26 games in none of those guys listed are even in Cam's ballpark. Comparison like this are garbage.

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I'm not sure you can put a number on it. Each case is very unique. There are way too many variables to try and diagnose failing QBs as whole.

Russell: Lack of work ethic, so put it on the player. He's never had to compete and got by on his physical strengths alone. When getting to the NFL, that wasn't going to fly.

Leaf: He was a head-case. Mentally, I don't think he was where he needed to be. So a lot of it has to be placed on him.

Carr: I personally didn't think he was #1 overall worthy. So you can blame him for busting, but I personally felt he wasn't going to be that great. People had too high expectations.

Clasuen: I think most of the blame is on him. He really wasn't given the best opportunity but it was still evident he is a work in progress.

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none of those guys had it.

none of those guys could handle the job.

none of them.

carr would have caved eventually. coaching might have helped. better oline might have helped. but then it might have just hidden the fragile psyche that already existed a bit longer. he was eventually going to crack under the pressure.

i'm of the persuasion that those who can make it in the league, find a way to make it happen.

leaf and russell were cut from essentially the same cloth. they were drafted because their teams and most analysts at the time were willing to overlook an overall lack of talent and intangibles because they saw this big QB with a cannon for an arm and the teams that drafted them mistakenly thought that they could coach them up and teach them how to be a QB.

jimmy clausen and brady quinn are pretty close the same QB. talent wasn't there. they just came from an over-hyped program.

i'm gonna go ahead and throw yo gabba gabba in there as well. he/s kind of the opposite of leaf and russell. he had the intangibles, i guess, but he didn't have the talent. people thought that he could be coached up enough. i said that he is one of the few that would have needed to sit for a few years, but even then i doubted it would be worth it. he shouldn't have been drafted as early as he was, regardless of where he was actually drafted or where draftniks thought he should be. in his senior year he looked like jimmy clausen as 2010 clausen.

weinke....drafted because he was older and more mature than most. given the starting job so early because of that. that doesn't make one a good QB, though. he's a case of being a better teacher/coach than a player.

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So here's where I once again disagree with a lot of folks.

I think every single one of the guys named in this thread could indeed have become a productive starter in the NFL with the right coaching.

Leaf could have been saved if he'd had a stronger hand, a Parcells type perhaps, to keep his ego in check.

David Carr? Absolutely. He needed someone who would teach him how to read defenses and more time to adjust. The Texans gave him neither.

Even Jimmy Clausen would have had a much better chance had he gone somewhere like Philly, a West Coast system with a well-known QB teacher who could have helped adjust his tendencies and cover his limitations.

JaMarcus Russell? Yep. Even JaMarcus might have become a good NFL QB in a system that wasn't so dysfunctional as the Raiders. Landing in Oakland, he pretty much had no chance.

Heck, I even think Vince Young could have been saved.

See, I put the general ratio of coaching to player at 80-20. That's why I think the vast majority of high round NFL busts are coaching failures, not player failures.

And yeah, that's probably about where I'd put Newton's issues right now too, though you could make an argument for 70-30.

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There's no way you can put a number on it like that. I think you give coaches give way too much credit in transforming certain players. There's some things you just can't teach like motivation and having the right mindset. At least not to all players.

Yes, coaches can fine tune some things, that's obviously their job. But to diagnose all failing QBs because of inept coaching can't always be the case.

Could Carr, Clausen, Russell, etc. failed because of coaching? Yes. But you can be a really good coach and still not have all your QBs succeed. It just doesn't work that way. Sometimes it's out of their hands and they have done all they could do.

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btw...russell didn't exactly start right away. it wasn't until the end of the year.

why? because he was more interested in signing a giant contract than trying to play. right away you could tell where his heart was and it wasn't in the game.

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