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#31 Jackofalltrades

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:20 PM

I just think finding a quality OG is too easy to spend such a high pick on one. If it was LT or C, then I'd agree, but OG and RT aren't that big of a priority to that high in the draft.

#32 Ruff

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:16 PM

Chuck just likes sexy players.

And you're arguing that a DT is more of an impact in the 4th quarter with two minutes left than a stud offensive linemen that will keep Cam clean and give him the time to get his targets the ball.

A good offensive guard gives your QB time to let his his receivers routes develop. With a QB as good as Cam, you don't need super star receivers. You just need to give him time to find the open target.

I know you didn't play football, but do you know how hard it is to get to the ball to ANYONE when a 300 pound man is coming at you 3 seconds after the snap?


I'm glad someone understands this.

And, to go further from what you said, I would prefer to have a strong OG, simply because I want our next coach to have a dominant run game. That is the way to clinch the game in the 4th quarter, when teams are trying their best to get the ball back. Just give it to a running back, have a dominant center (which we have) and a dominant guard (which we're lacking severely) open a giant hole and let the back pick up at least five.

We're in a time when the NFL is changing. The receiver position is incredibly important still, but less so now. There's all kinds of late-draft pick receivers becoming stars. The offensive line is becoming increasingly important as the position of QB becomes more important.

#33 carolina-chuck

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:25 PM

I just think finding a quality OG is too easy to spend such a high pick on one. If it was LT or C, then I'd agree, but OG and RT aren't that big of a priority to that high in the draft.


I agree. RG is more a need than LT at this point. But not a big enough need to take it in the 1st. I want DT/ WR in the 1st then we can look for a OG in the 2nd or in the 4th.



#34 carolina-chuck

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

I'm glad someone understands this.

And, to go further from what you said, I would prefer to have a strong OG, simply because I want our next coach to have a dominant run game. That is the way to clinch the game in the 4th quarter, when teams are trying their best to get the ball back. Just give it to a running back, have a dominant center (which we have) and a dominant guard (which we're lacking severely) open a giant hole and let the back pick up at least five.

We're in a time when the NFL is changing. The receiver position is incredibly important still, but less so now. There's all kinds of late-draft pick receivers becoming stars. The offensive line is becoming increasingly important as the position of QB becomes more important.


Take one in the 2nd or 4th.

#35 Ruff

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

Take one in the 2nd or 4th.


The same can be said for a DT, we can get one in the 2nd or 4th.

#36 carolina-chuck

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:35 PM

The same can be said for a DT, we can get one in the 2nd or 4th.


Not even close! Who's in the 2nd that can be as good as a Star or Hankins? Maybe Ford. But Jesse or Sylvester Williams? No way

2nd round OG: Barret Jones, Warford, Gabe Jackson, Bailey

2nd-4th OT: Fisher? Dallas, Aboushi, Fluker Williams

#37 arc

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:47 PM

Bottom line, we need a OG, NT, WR, FS, and a future LT so its gonna be hard to fill all of these with quality guys. As it stands now, I think getting Hankins may be the best route for round 1 but this offensive line no doubt needs to be rebuilt.

#38 Ruff

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:14 PM

Bottom line, we need a OG, NT, WR, FS, and a future LT so its gonna be hard to fill all of these with quality guys. As it stands now, I think getting Hankins may be the best route for round 1 but this offensive line no doubt needs to be rebuilt.


re: Hankins

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler stated that his notes on Ohio State junior DT Johnathan Hankins started at "glowing" and now are "extremely average."

This sums up Hankins' 2012 season very well, as many (including us) were very impressed with the Buckeye's sophomore tape. However, this season, Hankins has disappeared far too often and it is obvious his motor drains in the late stages of games.


Link

#39 arc

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:33 PM

re: Hankins



Link


good to know. thanks for the link

#40 pantherj

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:31 AM

Let's say you could see into the future and you knew for a fact that if we didn't build a great run blocking O-line with this draft, then we would have another losing season. But if we did build a great run blocking O-line, then we'd have a winning season. What would you do draft wise?

We go DT 1st, and non O-line in the 2nd, and we're losing 10+ games next season imo. Cam is not even close to being able to carry our offense. 2 or 3 season from now, maybe. Next season, we had better have a great rushing attack, or around 10+ losses imo.

The best run blocking OG in the draft I've seen is Chance Warmack. Get the rushing lanes open, and send the expensive RB though the lane. Start winning. If there's an option to trade down and pick him up, we had better take it. If we draft a DT with weight issues, then that's just sad. Please don't screw this up Panthers.

#41 carolina-chuck

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:00 AM

Let's say you could see into the future and you knew for a fact that if we didn't build a great run blocking O-line with this draft, then we would have another losing season. But if we did build a great run blocking O-line, then we'd have a winning season. What would you do draft wise?

We go DT 1st, and non O-line in the 2nd, and we're losing 10+ games next season imo. Cam is not even close to being able to carry our offense. 2 or 3 season from now, maybe. Next season, we had better have a great rushing attack, or around 10+ losses imo.

The best run blocking OG in the draft I've seen is Chance Warmack. Get the rushing lanes open, and send the expensive RB though the lane. Start winning. If there's an option to trade down and pick him up, we had better take it. If we draft a DT with weight issues, then that's just sad. Please don't screw this up Panthers.


What if we go DT and take a non OLINE in the 2nd, and that lead to a winning season? And if taking a OG and we're losing 10+games bc we're getting run over week in and weeks out?

Star is the best run stuffer I seen since Ngata? Stuffs the run and make life easier for Kuechly.

Just saying.

But yea if we could trade down and add a 2nd rd, HELL I'll go Warmack in the 1st. I'm find with that. I just don't really see why you'll use a top5-10 pick on an OG though. I don't see any OG going until after top 15-20 picks, so let's not be a team that reach for one.

#42 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:06 AM

What if we go DT and take a non OLINE in the 2nd, and that lead to a winning season? And if taking a OG and we're losing 10+games bc we're getting run over week in and weeks out?

Star is the best run stuffer I seen since Ngata? Stuffs the run and make life easier for Kuechly.

Just saying.

But yea if we could trade down and add a 2nd rd, HELL I'll go Warmack in the 1st. I'm find with that. I just don't really see why you'll use a top5-10 pick on an OG though. I don't see any OG going until after top 15-20 picks, so let's not be a team that reach for one.


Yea, especially if we could package those two highish 2nd round picks to move back into the bottom third of the 1st and get one of the top 2 or 3 WRs, or John Jenkins or Louis Nix, or some other guy that'll definitely be gone before our pick in the 2nd that'll be a big impact.

Hell, it might even be possible to trade down into the mid teens for that extra 2nd, then trade that 2nd and our 2nd into the high to mid 20s and grab Warmack there. Decastro went #24 if I'm not mistaken, Warmack might go around the same place. We could use that pick in the mid teens for someone like Hankins or Milliner or the top WR.

Imagine if we landed Hankins/Milliner/top WR + Warmack in this draft....*drool*

#43 carolina-chuck

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:27 AM

Yea, especially if we could package those two highish 2nd round picks to move back into the bottom third of the 1st and get one of the top 2 or 3 WRs, or John Jenkins or Louis Nix, or some other guy that'll definitely be gone before our pick in the 2nd that'll be a big impact.

Hell, it might even be possible to trade down into the mid teens for that extra 2nd, then trade that 2nd and our 2nd into the high to mid 20s and grab Warmack there. Decastro went #24 if I'm not mistaken, Warmack might go around the same place. We could use that pick in the mid teens for someone like Hankins or Milliner or the top WR.

Imagine if we landed Hankins/Milliner/top WR + Warmack in this draft....*drool*


Yea. Though I may just rather trade down and add another 2nd. Gets three picks in the first two rounds. Then we can solve the three needy positions of DT, WR and FS.

Imagine a Keenan Allen (1st), Ford/Nix and Matt Elam in the 2nd. Drools for me lol

#44 pantherj

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

What if we go DT and take a non OLINE in the 2nd, and that lead to a winning season? And if taking a OG and we're losing 10+games bc we're getting run over week in and weeks out?

Star is the best run stuffer I seen since Ngata? Stuffs the run and make life easier for Kuechly.

Just saying.

But yea if we could trade down and add a 2nd rd, HELL I'll go Warmack in the 1st. I'm find with that. I just don't really see why you'll use a top5-10 pick on an OG though. I don't see any OG going until after top 15-20 picks, so let's not be a team that reach for one.


I wouldn't be pulling my hair out with DT 1st, O-line 2nd, but what I really want is a trade down, and two premium road graters taken where it makes sense.

Part of the reason we're getting gashed in run defense is because our players are not staying in their assigned gaps, not for lack of talent. They're bailing out of their assigned gaps and jumping into the wrong gap to try and make a play for the RB who is baiting them, then getting burned. This happened like crazy against KC, and other teams as well. Also, Luke is making rookie mistakes in pass and run defense that he won't be making next season. We can shore up our run defense without a top 2 DT in this draft. We can't build a dominant rushing attack without adding serious beef to our O-line, not budget picks late. Otah made Williams look like a god, and that can happen again, but the cost is high picks. We'll chew up so much clock you won't even know or care that we have average run defense. The two best teams in our division spend their money and picks on passing the ball. If we're smart in this draft we can build a beast of an O-line and fight back in the NFCS.

I don't want to reach down for Warmack or any OG. I see the 2 top DTs in this draft as wonderful trade bait.

#45 carolina-chuck

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:32 PM

I wouldn't be pulling my hair out with DT 1st, O-line 2nd, but what I really want is a trade down, and two premium road graters taken where it makes sense.

Part of the reason we're getting gashed in run defense is because our players are not staying in their assigned gaps, not for lack of talent. They're bailing out of their assigned gaps and jumping into the wrong gap to try and make a play for the RB who is baiting them, then getting burned. This happened like crazy against KC, and other teams as well. Also, Luke is making rookie mistakes in pass and run defense that he won't be making next season. We can shore up our run defense without a top 2 DT in this draft. We can't build a dominant rushing attack without adding serious beef to our O-line, not budget picks late. Otah made Williams look like a god, and that can happen again, but the cost is high picks. We'll chew up so much clock you won't even know or care that we have average run defense. The two best teams in our division spend their money and picks on passing the ball. If we're smart in this draft we can build a beast of an O-line and fight back in the NFCS.

I don't want to reach down for Warmack or any OG. I see the 2 top DTs in this draft as wonderful trade bait.



Why would you choose to use Star or Hankins as a trade bait is beyond me. Why? Joeckel is who we should use as trade bait, not the top two DTs.


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