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Overlooked stat for Cam


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#106 The_Mango55

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:32 PM

Uh no he was using it to show who throws MORE deep balls since you think they run the same system

#107 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:39 PM

Are you seriously trying to use yards per completion to prove who is better at throwing more deep balls?

You would be laughed at on other forums.

FYI, you know you are a fuging homer when your math and argument makes Cam "better" than Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers at throwing deep! All of those guys have less yards per completion than Cam.


The argument was never who was better at throwing it deep, but who was asked to do it more. Dalton and Cam run an offense in two different schemes. You tried to argue that this wasn't the case and that Dalton makes all the same throws that Cam does, which is false.

Quit changing your argument.

And yes, Cam IS better at throwing the deep ball that Dalton. Dalton just lofts that poo up like a fuging duck and hopes that AJ can bail him out.

#108 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

Uh no he was using it to show who throws MORE deep balls since you think they run the same system


And I'm telling you there is no possible way to figure that out from yards per completion. Any quarterback in a WCO is going to have his yards per completion skewed depending on how many passing attempts they make short. That doesn't mean they actually throw fewer deep balls or are worse at throwing the deep ball. That just showed passing yards through the air, and yards after catch.

There is actually a category that tracks this. If you want it in total yardage, then when it comes to deep balls....

Andy has 12 over 40+ and Cam has 10 this year.

If you want deep ball through the air only, you're going to have to sign up and pay for it on an advanced site. But you can't figure it out from aypc. It says nothing about the number of passes through the air over 2, 5, 10, 15, 20, 40, etc....

It's an average. It can add up in a million of different ways and can still come out with the same air yards per completion.

#109 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:47 PM

See now that PFFL has been proven wrong on the statistics that he first brought up, now he argues that they don't matter.

It's really simple PFFL, if someone has a higher AYPC, especially with fewer attempts, it means that he's throwing the ball further down the field on average.

There's nothing hard about that.

#110 Ivan The Awesome

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

Based on what evidence or logic? Cam's not produced with Smith this year. Even after his recent great games, he's still only got 16 passing touchdowns for the season. Andy's got 21, tied for 5th in the NFL as of right now.

Cam benefits just as much from having Steve Smith as any quarterback would from an elite receiver. Go break it down and see which QB got the most yards after catch- total and per attempt- from their receivers last year. Nevermind the fact Smith's got much more experience than AJ. Andy is just a better game manager and understands the basics. You can win games with him and make the playoffs. Cam's still yet to learn that.

Marvin's bringing Andy along the right away. He let him manage the game and will let him open up this year. He's got more passing yards, more passing touchdowns, etc this year. He had an 80.4 Passer rating last year. He's a 90.3 this year. He's improved since his rookie season. Cam's regressed up until about 2 games ago, but you can't reason with Cam homers who think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread.


This whole post is a pile of poo.


1. literally take those wr away. Daltons TD's drop, like a bad habit. Smith has what? 2-3 TDS this year?

2. This is a team game, you're putting everything on Cam for not going to the playoffs and having a losing record? The fug type of logic is that?

3. I didn't know we had bungles fans in this board.

lol this guy.

#111 tiger7_88

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

I already know who he is.


Nolan Nawrocki?

#112 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:02 PM

Nolan Nawrocki?


I posted his Myspace and Facebook page.

#113 tiger7_88

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

Posted Image


What a.... ummm... errrr... *cough*... "lovely" couple?

#114 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

See now that PFFL has been proven wrong on the statistics that he first brought up, now he argues that they don't matter.

It's really simple PFFL, if someone has a higher AYPC, especially with fewer attempts, it means that he's throwing the ball further down the field on average.

There's nothing hard about that.



I never argued air yards per catch nor made any claims on who throws more deep balls. That's something you brought up and tried to draw a retarded conclusion which is laughable. And here's why that's a retarded argument. It's exaggerated to keep it simple for you:


QB 1 throws 30 passes for 2 yards and 10 passes for 40 yards,. Total aypc = 11.5 aypc
QB 2 throws 10 passes for 10 yards and 3 passees for 40 yards. Total aypcs 16.5 aypc

Who has the higher aypc? QB2.

Who actually threw more deep balls? Qb1 who threw 10.

The reason you "think" you proved my stats wrong, is cause you're a dumbass. It's an average. You're drawing conclusion from something you can't.

I've posted stats everyone knows like passer rating, completion percentage, touchdowns, yards after catch, targets, spreading the ball around to your top 3 receivers which means more about who is throwing to who than yards after catch......and you are using yards per completion to make a stupid claim.

And the only information I have on deep balls, is NFL's total passing yardage stats over 40+ which once again has Dalton with 12 bombs over 40 and Cam with 10.

#115 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:14 PM

PFFL that's a retarded example and you know it. The only way to get the figures you want are to greatly exaggerate the figures.

No one is going to have a massive number of 2 yard passes and a large number of 40 yard passes, with nothing in between. The fact is that it's an average, as you stated, and as such, it proves that Cam's passes travel further down field as an average per pass.

You want to argue that Dalton has these large numbers of down field passes, more so than Newton, and if that were true the averages would support it. The fact is that the few in air down field completions that Dalton has are negated, in his average, by his vastly greater number of shorter passes via his scheme.

Further more, even with those averages that you posted like a dumbass in that previous post, it's quite obvious who's scheme is more focused on downfield passing. QB1 might have more passes over 40 yards but he has fuging 30 passes at 2 yards, which means that 3/4 of his passes are for shorter than 2 yards. Where as your QB2 who doesn't have a pass under 10 yards. Now you tell me which QB has a downfield passing attack.

You continue to prove yourself an idiot at every turn.

#116 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

What exactly is it that you're trying to prove PFFL? Every time I prove something wrong you change your argument. Are you just trying to show that Dalton is a better QB than Cam?

#117 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:25 PM

PFFL that's a retarded example and you know it. The only way to get the figures you want are to greatly exaggerate the figures.

No one is going to have a massive number of 2 yard passes and a large number of 40 yard passes, with nothing in between. The fact is that it's an average, as you stated, and as such, it proves that Cam's passes travel further down field as an average per pass.

You want to argue that Dalton has these large numbers of down field passes, more so than Newton, and if that were true the averages would support it. The fact is that the few in air down field completions that Dalton has are negated, in his average, by his vastly greater number of shorter passes via his scheme.

Further more, even with those averages that you posted like a dumbass in that previous post, it's quite obvious who's scheme is more focused on downfield passing. QB1 might have more passes over 40 yards but he has fuging 30 passes at 2 yards, which means that 3/4 of his passes are for shorter than 2 yards. Where as your QB2 who doesn't have a pass under 10 yards. Now you tell me which QB has a downfield passing attack.

You continue to prove yourself an idiot at every turn.


No I never argued that he has a lot of down field passes in my original post. I simply argued he has the same amount of air yards as newton, better completion %, more touchdowns, more completions and completes proportionately the same amount of passes to his top 3 receivers.

You tried to back up his claim by using average yards per completion...

The conclusion you draw that yards per completion supports your argument ALSO supports that guys like Newton, Palmer, Freeman are better deep ball throwers than Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

Only an idiot would agree with that.

I used an exaggerated example to show you why you can't draw that conclusion without actually knowing the breakdown. And now you are changing your argument. You said deep balls. Now it's downfield passing attack. Fine, either way can't figure that out from aypc which is why I said you need the break down to actually figure out what you are trying to claim.

The scheming, which is what you want to get to, is a lot easier to get an idea of by looking at his top 3 targets, not freaking yards per completion. Is he throwing more to his running backs, dumping off the ball, to his tight ends or to his receivers....and it turns out both Andy and Cam have the same order of receivers for targets. #1, TE, and #2.

I will just add this and leave it at that. For example, last year...


Cincinnati Bengals QB Andy Dalton completed 46.2 percent of his throws last season that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, which ranked fourth in the NFL. He also was one of six quarterbacks last season with at least 15 completions of at least 30 yards.

Eli Manning 21
Aaron Rodgers 20
Mathew Stafford 18
Drew Brees 17
Tony Romo 17
Andy Dalton 15

http://espn.go.com/b...phomore-swagger



And it still looks good to me this year: http://www.nfl.com/n...ng-long-td-pass

#118 MadHatter

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:29 PM

You couldn't hit the hole of Brooklyn slut Floppin.


Let's not bring your wife into this conversation.

#119 Floppin

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:33 PM

Okay one more post then I'm done with you because you literally go around in circles.

No I never argued that he has a lot of down field passes in my original post. I simply argued he has the same amount of air yards as newton, better completion %, more touchdowns, more completions and completes proportionately the same amount of passes to his top 3 receivers.


No, you used air yards to disprove that Dalton plays in a WCO which utilizes shorter routes to protect his weakness for downfield passing. Of course this was intellectually dishonest because you didn't take into account the completion ratio in correspondence with the air yards. Not only did Dalton has slightly less air yads than Newton but he's needed almost 70 more passes to get anywhere near to Newton level. This is because of scheme and why AYPC is important to the argument.

You tried to back up his claim by using average yards per completion...

The conclusion you draw that yards per completion supports your argument ALSO supports that guys like Newton, Palmer, Freeman are better deep ball throwers than Peyton, Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

Only an idiot would agree with that.


No dipshit, I never used it to argue that he was "better" than anyone at throwing downfield (except that I stated that he was better than Dalton) only that he was asked to do it more as related to scheme. Peyton, Brady, Brees, and to a less extent Rogers, all run spread WCO style quick passing schemes, so of course Newton's AYPC would be higher because he runs a long developing downfield passing attack with AC route trees.

I used an exaggerated example to show you why you can't draw that conclusion without actually knowing the breakdown. And now you are changing your argument. You said deep balls. Now it's downfield passing attack. Fine, either way can't figure that out from aypc which is why I said you need the break down to actually figure out what you are trying to claim.

The scheming, which is what you want to get to, is a lot easier to get an idea of by looking at his top 3 targets, not freaking yards per completion. Is he throwing more to his running backs, dumping off the ball, to his tight ends or to his receivers....and it turns out both Andy and Cam have the same order of receivers for targets. #1, TE, and #2.


It doesn't matter what scheme you run, they are all going to have their highest completion percentages to their #1, TE, and #2. That's just the way it is, they are your primary receivers. There's not a scheme in the league that focuses on passing to the RB's or the FB's more than your fuging #1 receiver. Are you legally retarded or what? It's all about WHERE ON THE FIELD said receivers get the ball, not who's getting it.

#120 ReturnOfPFFL

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

Wow.

Yes your top 3 targets do matter, because if your #2 and #3 receivers in targets are your running backs and tight ends, you're not playing the deep ball. I'm not talking about completion % when I listed that. I'm talking about positions and the percentage of targets to each position.

For example, Eli Manning's #2 and #3 are both WIDE RECEIVERS. He's one of the best deep ball throwers in the league and uses a primarily vertical attack.

This tells you a lot more about what they are doing than your silly aypc math.

And you didn't directly make that claim, you tried to back up his claim with your ridiculous calculations. His claim was that Andy had issues with the deep ball. If that's not what you are arguing, WTF are you arguing?

On this final ridiculous claim, I will just add this and leave it at this....since I can't find this year's.


Cincinnati Bengals QB Andy Dalton completed 46.2 percent of his throws last season that traveled more than 20 yards in the air, which ranked fourth in the NFL. He also was one of six quarterbacks last season with at least 15 completions of at least 30 yards.

Eli Manning 21
Aaron Rodgers 20
Mathew Stafford 18
Drew Brees 17
Tony Romo 17
Andy Dalton 15

http://espn.go.com/b...phomore-swagger



Andy Dalton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.6
Cam Newton's AYPC in 2011 - 6.7

Cam's AYPC was higher in 2011, and he didn't make the list. This is what I'm trying to get through that brick head of yours! It's a stupid idea to draw the conclusions you are from yards per completion. Once again, you're wrong. GFY.


And his deep ball still looks good to me this year: http://www.nfl.com/n...ng-long-td-pass


PS: There is nothing intellectually dishonest about Andy Dalton running a pro style WCO, which most of the pro QB's run in the NFL vs the Spread Option when it comes to completion %. Spread Option is actually easier from a passing standpoint. Spread Option can help QB's complete passes at 70% just as easily if not easier than WCO. See Robert Griffin the 3rd. Russel Wilson's 63%. You get the advantage of wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide open receivers downfield when the defense forgets to account for them because they have to commit one extra guy to your rushing QB.


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