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Ban weapons of mass destruction.....NOW

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Posted

In 1982 21000 people died in alcohol related crashes.

Perhaps we could reduce gun violence by half as well with more laws, regulations,and awareness.

Great example!

Yes it is a great example. Odly enough not in the way you meant it though. We were able to reduce alcohol related crashes by punishing BEHAVIOR not by restricting access to alcohol. This is the same way to reduce violent crime.

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Yes it is a great example. Odly enough not in the way you meant it though. We were able to reduce alcohol related crashes by punishing BEHAVIOR not by restricting access to alcohol. This is the same way to reduce violent crime.

So things like raising the drinking age by three years aren't restricting access I guess.

Here we go making up poo again.

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I am not the one defying logic. My position is data based. And it is one I have held for a long time.

The shooter in Conn was not a criminal...he had no record before the killings. He did have access to legal weapons of mass destruction. Without that access...maybe a few more kids and maybe a teacher would be alive today.

I read a while back about a guy who snapped while he was driving in SF and plowed through many school children crossing the street.

He had no criminal record. No driving infractions. No history of mental illness. He just snapped one day and used the weapon he had at his disposal, a Buick, to kill several people.

It's sad what happened to those kids. It truly is. But sometimes in life poo happens that you can't control.

I've had a brother-in-law murdered by a knife, two very dear friends murdered by guns, and lost my best friend to a drunk driver. Neither alcohol, nor knives, nor guns should be banned in my opinion. And yes, if my daughter was one of the victims I would feel the same way.

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Posted

So things like raising the drinking age by three years aren't restricting access I guess.

Here we go making up poo again.

Raising the drinking age was not the predominant factor in dropping the alcohol fatality rate the 15-20 age group made up about 1 in 4 of the 21,000 (around 5,000) and about 1 in 5 of the 10,000 (around 2000)

ps Im pretty sure we already have age restrictions on gun purchases and have no issue with that.

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Raising the drinking age was not the predominant factor in dropping the alcohol fatality rate the 15-20 age group made up about 1 in 4 of the 21,000 (around 5,000) and about 1 in 5 of the 10,000 (around 2000)

ps Im pretty sure we already have age restrictions on gun purchases and have no issue with that.

Difference is, if your are drinking and driving you will get arrested. If you have a gun, there is nothing punitive until after you kill someone.

Also, as I have said several times, there isn't an epidemic of people getting into cars with a sole purpose of killing others. The vast majority of people that die in car crashes did not set out to crash their car that day. If they did I would be on board with stricter car regulations and the banning of certain cars.

Also comparing an object of transportation with an object of death is not a really strong comparison in my opinion.

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To summarize the gun ban argument in this thread, it's ban all or certain types of weapons simply because law abiding citizens don't "need" them. If that is the basis of your argument, step back and think about how weak that is. Why should I, a law abiding citizen living in 'Merica, be denied the right to lawfully own a gun, or heaven forbid an AR15? (insert ignoramus lib argument, "So you're saying I should be be able to own nukes") If you follow that logic, why should that single guy up the road have that 2400 sq ft house, he doesn't need it. In fact, lets boot him out and stick this more deserving 5 member family in there while were at it. I'm finished defending something that I don't need to defend. If I want something, and can legally obtain it, I get it. That's why we are all so blessed to live in the USA.

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Difference is, if your are drinking and driving you will get arrested. If you have a gun, there is nothing punitive until after you kill someone.

Also, as I have said several times, there isn't an epidemic of people getting into cars with a sole purpose of killing others. The vast majority of people that die in car crashes did not set out to crash their car that day. If they did I would be on board with stricter car regulations and the banning of certain cars.

Also comparing an object of transportation with an object of death is not a really strong comparison in my opinion.

Guns are designed to do one thing, kill things.

Alcohol is designed to do one thing, impair people.

So why don't we ban alcohol, if it is sold with the sole purpose of causing a huge risk to both those that consume it, and those that are just at the wrong place at the wrong time when someone consumes too much and kills them? Alcohol serves no other purpose other than to fug you up.

Because in America there are things that have an inherent risk that we trust the citizens to take care of responsibly, and when one of those citizens doesn't do that, it shouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to fug everybody else.

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Guns are designed to do one thing, kill things.

Alcohol is designed to do one thing, impair people.

So why don't we ban alcohol, if it is sold with the sole purpose of causing a huge risk to both those that consume it, and those that are just at the wrong place at the wrong time when someone consumes too much and kills them? Alcohol serves no other purpose other than to fug you up.

Because in America there are things that have an inherent risk that we trust the citizens to take care of responsibly, and when one of those citizens doesn't do that, it shouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to fug everybody else.

There is some truth to what you are saying. But people aren't taking bottles of Vodka and throwing them at kids and killing them.

That is also why there is preventative measures like making it illegal to drive while you are fugged up.

With guns they only arrest you after you kill a bunch of people, with alcohol they try to arrest you before that can happen.

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Guns are designed to do one thing, kill things.

Alcohol is designed to do one thing, impair people.

So why don't we ban alcohol, if it is sold with the sole purpose of causing a huge risk to both those that consume it, and those that are just at the wrong place at the wrong time when someone consumes too much and kills them? Alcohol serves no other purpose other than to fug you up.

Because in America there are things that have an inherent risk that we trust the citizens to take care of responsibly, and when one of those citizens doesn't do that, it shouldn't be a knee jerk reaction to fug everybody else.

Firearms and alcohol when used responsibly (not together) are unlikely to pose a threat to innocent bystanders.

Both firearms and alcohol are safer today because of federal, state and local government regulations.

Current federal, state and local regulations for firearms are still not sufficient and need to be revised.

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Posted

There is some truth to what you are saying. But people aren't taking bottles of Vodka and throwing them at kids and killing them.

That is also why there is preventative measures like making it illegal to drive while you are fugged up.

With guns they only arrest you after you kill a bunch of people, with alcohol they try to arrest you before that can happen.

There are no real preventative measures to stop somebody from drinking and driving. There are laws that say bars can't serve someone who appears intoxicated, but do bartenders listen? Rarely. Saying that it is illegal to drink and drive is a preventative measure against drinking and driving simply isn't true. Yes it's illegal, but you have to commit the crime before they arrest you for it, aside from the one in a million chance that a cop watches you stumble to your car while you are drunk and flashes the lights before you drive off. It is a reactive law, not a proactive, preventative law. Gun laws are the same. You may own a gun, and those that gave you that right expect you to use it responsibly. As with DUI cases, some people don't use those rights responsibly, and you can only arrest them after they've done so. So unfortunately with guns, you cannot arrest a person until they have done something with it.

So again the point I'm trying to make is this. If my daughter is twenty years old and has some friends over to my house, steals the liquor from my liquor cabinet, gets drunk, gets into her car and crashes into a school bus full of six and seven year olds, the country isn't going to pass some new prohibition act.

The shooter stole weapons that his mother went through all the necessary channels to obtain, and committed a terrible act with them. The fact that one was a semi-automatic rifle makes little difference in my mind. Would he have done as much damage with just two pistols? Maybe. Maybe not. But even if he killed 5 six year old children who were eagerly anticipating Christmas, is that any less a tragedy than 20?

These anti gun laws IMO are a slippery slope of things to be taken away because a small percentage of people are going crazy. If people made bombs out of fireworks every year and killed people, how long until they ban everything but snakes and sparklers because they deem the rest to be too dangerous for us civilians to weild it ourselves?

It just makes me nervous is all.

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There are no real preventative measures to stop somebody from drinking and driving. There are laws that say bars can't serve someone who appears intoxicated, but do bartenders listen? Rarely. Saying that it is illegal to drink and drive is a preventative measure against drinking and driving simply isn't true. Yes it's illegal, but you have to commit the crime before they arrest you for it, aside from the one in a million chance that a cop watches you stumble to your car while you are drunk and flashes the lights before you drive off. It is a reactive law, not a proactive, preventative law. Gun laws are the same. You may own a gun, and those that gave you that right expect you to use it responsibly. As with DUI cases, some people don't use those rights responsibly, and you can only arrest them after they've done so. So unfortunately with guns, you cannot arrest a person until they have done something with it.

So again the point I'm trying to make is this. If my daughter is twenty years old and has some friends over to my house, steals the liquor from my liquor cabinet, gets drunk, gets into her car and crashes into a school bus full of six and seven year olds, the country isn't going to pass some new prohibition act.

The shooter stole weapons that his mother went through all the necessary channels to obtain, and committed a terrible act with them. The fact that one was a semi-automatic rifle makes little difference in my mind. Would he have done as much damage with just two pistols? Maybe. Maybe not. But even if he killed 5 six year old children who were eagerly anticipating Christmas, is that any less a tragedy than 20?

These anti gun laws IMO are a slippery slope of things to be taken away because a small percentage of people are going crazy. If people made bombs out of fireworks every year and killed people, how long until they ban everything but snakes and sparklers because they deem the rest to be too dangerous for us civilians to weild it ourselves?

It just makes me nervous is all.

Very rational and logical response...well done.

Given that, I am interested in seeing your views on improving the laws around purchasing and owning firearms.

1 We all know that laws around purchasing firearms is very inconsistent across state lines and is lacking (especially the Gun Show Loophole). Would you be in favor of more consistent laws....requiring backgroudn checks and a waiting period?

2. What do you think about requiring people to be required to take and pass a gun safety/ownership course to purchase them? Maybe a periodic renewal.....like we do for a driver's license.

I agree with you that banning guns is not the answer. But, I also agree with many here that the regulations around purchasing and owning guns does need some work.

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Posted

My proposal has been, based on what someone purchases and the frequency etc, let that drive the scrutiny. Take the mom of Adam here. As she buys what she buys let that raise a red flag and then some questions have to be asked.

I have seen alot of people mention a yearly renewal and gun courses etc or paying fees or taxes and to a point thats fine. It still doesn't get at the heart of someone.

If you buy body armor or high powered rifles and or ammo, you will get a certified letter in the mail and you will have an appointmen. Fill out a form and various questions are asked.

If you pass the mental illness piece or criminal record piece you can move forward. You will be asked if you have kids and as delicate as you can let the person doing the interview ask questions to at least see if they can get a sense of the person. Make notes and much like social worker create a file and go from there.

The state of CT had supposedly good gun laws and yet this happened. Everything from buying the guns etc were done legally.

I want to go back to the drunk driving part again because I brought that up early on. The sheer # of deaths that happen with DD is light years worse than random killings. It's not even close. But the social stigma is significantly skewed towards gun deaths? The reason?

Most everyone drives a car or may have something to drink. At some level more are connected with that.

But as a society, from 1982 and on, we had to make social and cultural changes. Cars and alcohol wasn't banned, but meaures were put in place to counter all the deaths that were going on. It was close to 30k a year dying.Think about that staggering #.

The 3 common denominators at play here are this. Mental Illness. Guns and violent video games. All three can remain while all three can be tweaked from a social lense as well as how, who and when a person is given or exposed to each.

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