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Panthro

I Am Adam Lanza's Mother

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Firearms are presumably purchased as a means of personal/family protection.

Automobiles are presumably purchased as a means of personal/family transportation

Household firearms are 43 times more likely to be used on a friend or family member than an impending threat.

If automobiles were as unsuccessful as firearms at fulfilling their primary purpose we would all be using public transportation.

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in 30 years there has been 61 mass murders. from 82 to 2012

in just 2008 there were over 13,000 drunk driving deaths alone. one year. each year since 82 its been going down from 26k a year to holding steady at 14k a year or so.

the likelihood of anyone on the huddle being killed by a drunk driver is incredibly much higher than being in gunned down. neither is a fate i wish on anyone but those are the stats.

my point with DD is the same methodology and innovation and gathering of the right people and parties to solve an epidemic that kills so many more peopl can also be applied to the mental health issue and them somehow killing others.

in fact, the odds of doing that more effectively than DD is actually great.

off the bat we know they are almost always white males. there alone your sample size to go towards your resolve conclusion is there.

then you start to drill down. did those that did those mass killings ever get mental health care? turned down? when, where, how often, which state? did they go to prison then get out and THEN do the killings? where, when, how often, which state etc?

it can be done.

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guys i get the firearms vs cars part. one is a tool for travel work etc. hear me out. however, the one tool does a diabolically better job at killing than the tool that is specifically designed to kill.

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guys i get the firearms vs cars part. one is a tool for travel work etc. hear me out. however, the one tool does a diabolically better job at killing than the tool that is specifically designed to kill.

It's hyperbole but it raises some of the same type of questions,

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guys i get the firearms vs cars part. one is a tool for travel work etc. hear me out. however, the one tool does a diabolically better job at killing than the tool that is specifically designed to kill.

The number of individuals that utilize automobiles vs firearms and the number of hours those items are utilized on a daily, weekly, monthly and annual basis likely explains why the numbers appear as they do.

but the # of alcohol related deaths from 1982 to 2008 have been almost cut in half.

two things have improved. the car and it's safety features for sure but also recognition of drunk drivers, better effective laws/rules. better equipment etc. the other side is not just education but effective ad campaigns. even beer companies do a great job of making the designated driver actually cool compared to when it was first introduced.

I think you have captured the essence of the scale of the problem. There is no magic bullet to solve this issue. It is complex and will require time and advances in multiple disciplines to reduce the carnage. The social attitudes 30 years ago towards DWI/DUI were just as polarized. There are still many that complain about being stopped at DWI checkpoints during the holidays. The results are hard to argue with though.

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The lack of adequate preventive health care for many Americans is part of the problem.

Also, ostensibly to save money, our society has largely reverted to the practices of the 19th century, expecting the prison system to warehouse our mentally ill.

Unfortunately, as we have all witnessed numerous times recently, the courts and prison system don't tend to get involved until it is too late.

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then i need to see empirical evidence on the # of people who go to get help for mental health care and are turned down. i need to know the states and how often it occurs.

keep in mind, its been 60 mass murders over a 30 yr span. thats hardly a bellweather for universal health care.

many times you have to deconstruct the problem and see how big or small it really is. it may be larger in scope or it may be a more simplistic solution. occam's razor and such.

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then i need to see empirical evidence on the # of people who go to get help for mental health care and are turned down. i need to know the states and how often it occurs.

keep in mind, its been 60 mass murders over a 30 yr span. thats hardly a bellweather for universal health care.

many times you have to deconstruct the problem and see how big or small it really is. it may be larger in scope or it may be a more simplistic solution. occam's razor and such.

What is considered a Mass Murder? More than two, three, ten?

The priorities in our nation are more and more being driven by monetary concerns and less by social concerns. As a result, the mentally ill are being under served. While more robust mental health services would assist in identifying potential threats earlier and more often, our nation has continued to cut back on such funding. Any reversal in policies regarding mental health funding will likely require a greater benefit to society than an occasional prevention of carnage. Our society has already become largely desensitized to the never ending stream of murders.

Conventional wisdom suggests that the reduction of funding for social welfare policies during the 1980s is the result of a conservative backlash against the welfare state. With such a backlash, it should be expected that changes in the policies toward involuntary commitment of the mentally ill reflect a generally conservative approach to social policy more generally. In this case, however, the complex of social forces that lead to less restrictive guidelines for involuntary commitment are not the result of conservative politics per se, but rather a coalition of fiscal conservatives, law and order Republicans, relatives of mentally ill patients, and the practitioners working with those patients. Combined with a sharp rise in homelessness during the 1980s, Ronald Reagan pursued a policy toward the treatment of mental illness that satisfied special interest groups and the demands of the business community, but failed to address the issue: the treatment of mental illness

A nice synopsis of the last 50 years of the Federal Governments role in mental health. (A bit dated, but still relevant.)

http://www.sociology...004/thomas.html

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then i need to see empirical evidence on the # of people who go to get help for mental health care and are turned down. i need to know the states and how often it occurs.

keep in mind, its been 60 mass murders over a 30 yr span. thats hardly a bellweather for universal health care.

many times you have to deconstruct the problem and see how big or small it really is. it may be larger in scope or it may be a more simplistic solution. occam's razor and such.

According to the FBI, mass murder is defined as four or more murders occurring during a particular event with no cooling-off period between the murders. A mass murder typically occurs in a single location in which a number of victims are killed by an individual or more.[2] Most acts of mass murder end with the death of the perpetrator(s), whether by direct suicide or being killed by law enforcement.[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Mass_murder

It is curious that more people are not listed as mass murderers based on this definition. There seems to be plenty of husbands killing their wives, children and then killing themselves that should qualify for this moniker

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RACHEL MARTIN, HOST:

After a tragedy like the one in Newtown, people understandably want to know why someone would act with such extreme violence. Researchers have spent years trying to figure that out with mixed results.

Joining me now to talk about this case is NPR science correspondent Jon Hamilton. Jon, thanks for being here.

MARTIN: There's a tendency to think that someone who does something like this simply has to have some kind mental illness. Or has gone through a psychotic breakdown. I mean, doesn't someone who engages in this kind of violence have to be deeply disturbed in some way?

HAMIILTON: Disturbed, that's a slightly different description in the necessarily mentally ill. Now, in fact, when you look at people who have committed mass murders, many of them have some sort of history of mental illness. But if you look at it the other way, if you look at the large group of people who have some sort of mental illness, you know, it's not clear they're more likely to be violent. And certainly not clear that they're more likely to commit mass murder.

As for, you know, that people often bring up the question of the psychotic break. You know, that somebody snapped. You know, what that means is you have scattered thoughts. You may be hearing voices in your head. You have no sense of what's real and what's not. And that would make it pretty hard to carry out an organized plan to obtain weapons and ammunition, go to a specific place and methodically kill a lot of people.

MARTIN: If in fact, he had a form of autism, could that have been a factor?

HAMIILTON: Well, first off, we should say again that we don't know whether Adam Lanza had autism. And if he did, there really aren't scientific studies showing that people with autism are somehow more likely to commit mass murders, or any other kind of murders. But autism can be a factor in a person's view of the world. And it's a problem that can be associated with feelings of despair, of alienation, anger, and kids with autism are often treated quite cruelly by their peers.

MARTIN: So from a psychological point of view, what do we know about what prompts someone do to do something as horrific as this?

HAMIILTON: Well, people have been carrying out mass murderers for centuries. And researchers have been studying those people for almost as long, trying to come up with some kind of a profile of mass murderers; some way to identify somebody who is likely to commit this sort of crime. And for the most part they failed. I mean, yes, mass murderers tend to be young and male and angry and troubled. But think about how many young people fit that description in this country.

More of the discussion here

http://www.npr.org/2...ealth-treatment

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in 30 years there have been 60 mass murders. based on the definition per the FBI as you said its 4 or more. lets peg it 8 for a variation. thats 480 over 30 years.

but we need to take a freakonomics/moneyball approach.

you mention better health care esp for the mentally ill. yeah i agree with that but consider this and this is what i mean by empirical evidence.

of those 60 mass murders, 43 were white male's per panthro's article. of those 43, how many of them saw a doctor or were never diagnosed?

did they get help or meds? what kind of meds? no meds? did they ever go to jail or work a job and make their own money to purchase weapons?

that 43 is what we need to deconstruct. what if 100% of them did in fact recieve mental health care? then what? or what if it was 0?

a blanket macro approach is not going to solve this. that is why i used the comparatives of drunk driving. look at the scope and #'s of that. 10's of thousands die every year. thats a fact. but the sample size of offenders is all over the place and reaches every single state. the demographics and race are all over the place.

so look at how those #'s went down and take those lessons learned and apply them to solving the mental illness/mass murder issue. take a loss mitigation approach and go from there.

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How many of those who have committed mass murder in the last 30 yrs were properly treated or not? What % were seen by a doc and what were the docs final diagnosis?

If they all had access to mental health care then that cant be an issue. We need to drill down into this to lower these #'s.

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Here's the twist pstoli

A high percentage of the mass murders are done by the mentally ill.

Just Being mentally ill does not mean you are capable of mass murder....but the inverse is true

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