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Perturbed Panther PSL Owners Federation


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#91 X-Clown

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

From what I've read, my first guess is that this guy is CEO of Mom's Basement, LLC.

Odds are he's nobody, but he thinks anonymously claiming to be "a group of business leaders and PSL owners" will make people listen. The reason he's being anonymous is because if people knew who he actually was, nobody would give a flying rip what he thinks.


I was going to post a rebuttal to Marguide's post, but this pretty much covers it.

#92 X-Clown

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:07 PM

Welp. At least they finally defined what a "True Panther Fan" is.

A bunch of sour grapes assholes who play from the position of hindsight.

They complain about Marty Hurney, the guy who has already been fired and helped create a roster that was very competitive for several years including a Super Bowl appearance a couple of divisional championships, and a couple of NFC championship games. Oh and who had the balls to draft Cam Newton in the face of many doubters.

This is a guy who hired John Fox and Fox's tenure we had a .513 win % including going 5-3 in the playoffs. That win percentage would have been higher if the same type people that wrote this letter didn't bitch and moan until Fox had to fire a good OC in Dan Henning to hire a shitty OC in Jeff Davidson (this move in my opinion was the death nail in Fox's coffin)

Hurney has had plenty of missteps and we can go around and around about that. But he wasn't a terrible GM and had a lot of homeruns to go along with some strikeouts.

But what are they complaining about, he was fired. Do they want JR to hire him back so he can fire him again?

I love how they single out Robert Kraft as a model for winning. Good to know that all we have to do is find perhaps the best QB ever to play football and play in the AFC East against the worst collection of QBs in the NFL. That might be hard to swing.


It's just a case of hindsight being 20/20. They are now ripping JR for hiring Hurney and Fox in the first place due to their inexperience, even though the move worked pretty brilliantly for the better parts of 2002-2008. Their supposed argument is that JR should have hired a head coach who had experience and is proven elsewhere, but oh wait, you shouldn't hire McDermott or Chud since they were fired from their other jobs.

Basically that means the only coach that would have fit their criteria is Cowher. And they conveniently fail to mention that JR did try this with George Seifert and we all know how that worked out.

#93 Marguide

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

From what I've read, my first guess is that this guy is CEO of Mom's Basement, LLC.

Odds are he's nobody, but he thinks anonymously claiming to be "a group of business leaders and PSL owners" will make people listen. The reason he's being anonymous is because if people knew who he actually was, nobody would give a flying rip what he thinks.


Well then he's a nobody that dropped several grand on a full page ad in the Observer.

Does that sound like someone in mom's basement?

Look, I'm not saying I agree with even 50% of what the guy (or guys, or women, or both) is saying. I just don't understand why so many on here who have not chosen to spend their hard earned money to make a statement have such a problem with it.

#94 Mr. Scot

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:22 PM

I was going to post a rebuttal to Marguide's post, but this pretty much covers it.


Sad thing is if he would've just spoken his opinion as himself, I'd have been more likely to take him seriously.

Pulling the whole "I'm a bunch of business owners / we're the heart and soul of the fanbase" bit has made the whole thing laughable.

#95 teeray

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:29 PM

How is what they do for a living relevant? It would be nice to see affirmation that they are indeed PSL owners, but assuming that is true, their points should be evaluated based on their merits. It's not like they are lobbying for jobs, they are just speaking as customers and to some extent as investors.

They could all work at the local McDonalds, but if they are spending their hard earned money on PSL's, where they work shouldn't disqualify the message.

It is relevant in this sense.

The entire open letter is accusatory in tone. They are trying to say that basically JR is tanking the team in order to line his own pockets. (I don't know why they think this considering we have pretty much maxed out our cap space and I am sure that if an owner wants to make more money he would love the revenue that is associated with making the playoffs.)

They accuse JR of running a pyramid scheme. They take pot shots at our "adolescent" QB, question the morality of JR, and accuse him of "forfeiting community pride for more profits".

In order to bolster the credibility of these accusations they accredit themselves as "business executives". My point is, if you are going to make the type of accusations and say that you have the expertise to make these accusations, you should put your name on it so that the people reading the letter can vet your "expertise" to determine your level of actual competence on the issue, or to ascertain whether there may be a conflict of interest.

For all we know this may be some business owners in LA trying to cause unrest in the Carolinas to try and get the fans to turn against the franchise like they did the Hornets so they can get a football team to re-locate to their city. Again, probably not, but without more information how can one be certain.

If this was a business executive at Bank of America what credibility would he have on the issues of fairness and social responsibility after what happened in 2008?

This letter wasn't just "Hey we are frustrated" it was an accusation of JR of purposeful tanking and of deceit to the general population.

They say:

".... despite the short term gratification of the Panthers' recent tantalizing victories, a growing number of veteran fans know the real score. We are convinced that the Panthers' true potential, and, worse, our community pride is being forfeited in favor of squeezing out more profits."


That isn't saying that they just wish we won more games. That is an accusation that recent struggles have been purposely manufactured by JR.

When you start throwing these type of accusations around, if you are truly interested in community fairness, you should allow the community to know who is making these accusations, in order to make sure that credibility actually exists.

I will give you one quick example. Say a stranger rings your doorbell and says, "Hey there, I am just informing you that you owe my company $5,000 dollars in back payments, due today, and I am here to collect a check. You can trust me, I am a business man"

Would you say, "Welp, let me get my checkbook"

Or would you say "Wait, who are you again? What company do you work for? Where did these charges come from?"

Hopefully you would say the latter.

#96 Scrumtrilescent

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:32 PM

Oh, those crazy newspaper editors will do anything to push up circulation numbers.

#97 Mr. Scot

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:37 PM

Well then he's a nobody that dropped several grand on a full page ad in the Observer.

Does that sound like someone in mom's basement?

Look, I'm not saying I agree with even 50% of what the guy (or guys, or women, or both) is saying. I just don't understand why so many on here who have not chosen to spend their hard earned money to make a statement have such a problem with it.


Mom might be the one with the money.

Given the state of the newspaper business today though, I'm not sure it cost as much as it would have in the past.

Ultimately though, regardless of how rich he is (or isn't) if as I suspect this is one guy claiming to represent several people when he really doesn't, then the whole thing is pretty much crap.

Bottom line: As long as the source is "A. Nonymous", I see no reason to take it seriously.

#98 Baby Andy Reid

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:06 PM

There are many more fans who don't go to games at all, or if they do, only when it's a free ticket or heavily discounted (like many of our home games have been). So, your point of non PSL holders spending more of their income as a percentage on the Panthers vs. PSL holders is basically applying the math only to your situation.

Similar to what the PPPOF group is doing, claiming they are the voice of PSL holders (and then quickly changing their tune when called out about it).


I think there are a good number of people like myself. I also think there are a large number of people/companies/brokers that own psl's strictly to sell season tickets and turn a profit. Probably including many of these people. Jerry is affecting their bottom line. They want to point the finger at Jerry, but are they in or more importantly out of their seat game after game losing their mind creating a home field advantage? Or are they selling their tickets to the highest bidder from opposing team's fans? This isnt all on Jerry, we need an identity as a fan base as well, other then a soft one.

#99 Marguide

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

It is relevant in this sense.

The entire open letter is accusatory in tone. They are trying to say that basically JR is tanking the team in order to line his own pockets. (I don't know why they think this considering we have pretty much maxed out our cap space and I am sure that if an owner wants to make more money he would love the revenue that is associated with making the playoffs.)


You make a number of good points. I thought they went way overboard with the whole "Jerry is an old money grubbing fool" routine.

Nonetheless, the letter at least sparks discussion about the state of the franchise and I see that as a good thing.

Jerry brings much of this on himself. He rarely communicates with the media so people are left to speculate about his intentions. And he has had less than a stellar public persona in the last couple of years, starting with the pie chart/come up front darling press conference, to the shots he took in the CBA negotiations, to his role in the recent official's lockout.

I think Jerry is a very good man. Just take a look at his recent efforts on behalf of the Olsens. And this is not the exception for him; it's the way he has consistently conducted himself when someone was in need.

Personal characteristics aside, he has to be accountable for his actions as majority partner of the Panthers. It would be great if he came out and talked about his thoughts on the future of the team and how he sees us accomplishing our goals. It won't happen, but it would be great from a PR standpoint.

There is not a doubt in my mind that many PSL owners are seriously pissed right now. While perhaps this wasn't the best effort or method for one or more of them to express their displeasure, it at least opens the debate and I think that has some value.

#100 teeray

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

You make a number of good points. I thought they went way overboard with the whole "Jerry is an old money grubbing fool" routine.

Nonetheless, the letter at least sparks discussion about the state of the franchise and I see that as a good thing.

Jerry brings much of this on himself. He rarely communicates with the media so people are left to speculate about his intentions. And he has had less than a stellar public persona in the last couple of years, starting with the pie chart/come up front darling press conference, to the shots he took in the CBA negotiations, to his role in the recent official's lockout.

I think Jerry is a very good man. Just take a look at his recent efforts on behalf of the Olsens. And this is not the exception for him; it's the way he has consistently conducted himself when someone was in need.

Personal characteristics aside, he has to be accountable for his actions as majority partner of the Panthers. It would be great if he came out and talked about his thoughts on the future of the team and how he sees us accomplishing our goals. It won't happen, but it would be great from a PR standpoint.

There is not a doubt in my mind that many PSL owners are seriously pissed right now. While perhaps this wasn't the best effort or method for one or more of them to express their displeasure, it at least opens the debate and I think that has some value.


I don't disagree with most of that. But I think the open letter was poorly done and its intent was undermined by its own vitriol.

They could have made some of the very points you just made without all the accusations and taking pot shots at Cam Newton who is the face of the franchise. Cam being "adolescent" (whether true or not) has nothing to do with the JR's running of the franchise.

#101 Marguide

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:36 PM

I don't disagree with most of that. But I think the open letter was poorly done and its intent was undermined by its own vitriol.

They could have made some of the very points you just made without all the accusations and taking pot shots at Cam Newton who is the face of the franchise. Cam being "adolescent" (whether true or not) has nothing to do with the JR's running of the franchise.


They definitely went overboard with certain comments and came off as both vindictive and trivial in spots, almost as if they had a personal problem with JR.

I guess it boils down to this...JR needs to feel some heat. The same kind of heat Rivera, our coaches, and our players have been dealing with. This is especially true now when he is about to make a series of decisions that will have a big impact on the franchise for at least the next several years.


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