Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Why is it all Rivera's fault?


  • Please log in to reply
114 replies to this topic

#16 JawnyBlaze

JawnyBlaze

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,197 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

This team is far from having a serious lack of talent, and while there's plenty of young guys there's plenty of experienced guys at every major position group. The DBs have Gamble, the LBs have everyone (even Luke playing like a vet), the DL is plenty experienced, the O-line has Gross and Kalil, WRs have Smitty, RBs are all experienced, QB is the only one even close to being "inexperienced" if you wanna call Anderson not much of someone to look to. Those two excuses don't even come close to cutting it. The biggest inexperience problem with the team was at the HC position.

#17 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,459 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:27 AM

The comparisons to Atlanta are off base. When Smith took over and then brought in Turner and Ryan he had many more pieces to work with than Rivera did after Richardson went on a cutting spree and divested themselves of a ton of talent in 2010. This isn't to say that Smith hasn't done a great job because he has, but the talent level on the teams were not the same when they both took over.

Secondly people keep forgetting that Rivera started slow last year because we took a quarterback who everyone said wouldn't be ready for 2 years, installed a defense and offense scheme which was completely new, and had no off season to install it. We were still installing the offense 10 weeks into the season. As for the defense, in addition to all the injuries, we couldn't keep the same guys on the field for 2 games in a row.

The bitching about this year is justified. The team wasn't ready to play early and we were inconsistent. A number of players heavily counted on didn't do much. After the bye we played much better as did Newton. Best of all to me, Newton for example didn't have a good game against New Orleans yet we won due to great defense and special teams and a suddenly revitalized ground game.

The question is whether you lump everything together and put the blame on him alone, or you look at things a little deeper and realize that he was a factor but not necessarily the major issue. Sure the buck stops with the coach, but before you give someone the boot, you have to understand that any change isn't always for the better. If we had continued to lose, then make a change. Keep him on a short leash if you want, but he showed that we were competitive all year and dominant at the end.

Surely the case for retaining him is just as compelling as the one to let him go.

#18 ThunderKatt

ThunderKatt

    Hello to All my Haters

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,026 posts
  • LocationIn yo moma

Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:33 AM

Why are we so quick to forget that the Falcons are a 5 year old team?

It's going to take a while to build a consistent team in this league. I don't know why people on this board are so quick to forget that the Falcons are an experienced team and we are not. Why exactly do we expect results to be delivered this instant, right now when we have done nothing to deserve that luxury? I want this team to be successful as any other person on here, but that doesn't mean I expect results at unreasonable times. This team has a lot of growing to do, but we're not as far off from the playoffs as some of the emos think we are.


Well, I know the falcons won 11 games the first season Smith took and they weren't experienced with a rookie quarterback either. Also, they are having a top 3 franchise season with a recently overhauled coaching staff.

#19 TheRed

TheRed

    California Dreamin'

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,652 posts
  • LocationCharlotte, NC

Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:48 AM

Has Rivera not been the head coach of the Panthers all this time? Silly me, I absolve him of all fault.

Okay, back to reality now.

#20 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,459 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 02 January 2013 - 10:51 AM

This team is far from having a serious lack of talent, and while there's plenty of young guys there's plenty of experienced guys at every major position group. The DBs have Gamble, the LBs have everyone (even Luke playing like a vet), the DL is plenty experienced, the O-line has Gross and Kalil, WRs have Smitty, RBs are all experienced, QB is the only one even close to being "inexperienced" if you wanna call Anderson not much of someone to look to. Those two excuses don't even come close to cutting it. The biggest inexperience problem with the team was at the HC position.


How many of the guys you mentioned played at all this year?? Gamble?? IR on October 22nd, Kalil on October 10th, Beason on IR October 24th. How many games did Stewart play? Nine and started in 6.

Smitty was one of the only receivers who was there all year?? Gettis?? Didn't play. LaFell- missed 2 games and didn't start in another 2 so we had a 4 game void without him. Murphy was starting after being the 4th receiver on the depth chart.

And as for quarterback, Newton is the inexperienced one still learning and figuring things out.

Rivera is learning as well, but I think that this year was a great learning experience and he will do better next year. Why do I think that? Because he knows if he stays that he got a reprieve and that he has to start out well. Will they? I hope so.....

#21 Marguide

Marguide

    South of the Border

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:06 AM

How many of the guys you mentioned played at all this year?? Gamble?? IR on October 22nd, Kalil on October 10th, Beason on IR October 24th. How many games did Stewart play? Nine and started in 6.


You want to use the injury excuse?

We went into this season healthier than we have in years. How did we play when those guys were in there? We were 1-4 with a team completely healthy, and 1-5 with a team with everyone but Kalil for one week.

How did we do when those starters played? We couldn't run the ball to save our lives. Pass protection was terrible. We scored an average of 16 points a game. The team was poorly prepared entering the season. That is on Ron; no one else.

#22 panfan32

panfan32

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 581 posts
  • LocationFayetteville, North Carolina

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:08 AM

My issue with the Staff is the lack of game management in close games or games where we had the lead and became complacent in the 4th QTR. In this league in this era, its not uncommon for a team to put up 10-14 points in under 5 minutes. They played to many time to not lose a game and not enough of coaching to win a game. This could have made the difference in several of our close games.
Games in point
Atlanta Falcons Lose 30-28
Seattle Seahawks Lose 16-12
Dallas Cowgirls Lose 19-14
Chicago Bears Lose 23-22
Tampa Bay Lose 27-21 OT
Kansa City Chiefs 27-21
I’m not sure which game it was (I think it was the Chiefs game), But there was one that just completely blew my mind. We were down and it was the 4th QTR. Not down by much but down. WE had the ball around our 35 yards line and it was 4-5. Now the instead of risking it and going for the 1st down, he punts the ball knowing our Defense has not stopped their offense all game.

What should have happened is a short pass, FB run (I have not seen Tolbert stopped for less than 4 yards all season), or a screen pass something other than punting it away and all hopes of a win are gone.

Until the last 4 weeks, the staff has not had a killer instinct that is needed in this era of football. Its not about running up the score, it’s about being so far ahead that no 5 minute drill will let the other team catch up for the tie or win.

#23 Doc Holiday

Doc Holiday

    NON FACETE NOBIS CALCITRARE VESTRVM PERINAEVM

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,831 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

It's just easier to blame the coach then the team, a lot of people don't even consider that players on this team just aren't very good.

Like Josh Norman, any other team in the league and the dude is on the bench and doesn't play a snap this year and people complain that he's getting benched and not starting??? Lol

#24 Keith Moons Liver

Keith Moons Liver

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,582 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

It's not. That's why we also fired Hurney, also need to fire the assistant coaches (especially OC and ST), and need to replace many of our players with better ones. Canning Rivera is only one step but a critical one.

#25 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,459 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

You want to use the injury excuse?

We went into this season healthier than we have in years. How did we play when those guys were in there? We were 1-4 with a team completely healthy, and 1-5 with a team with everyone but Kalil for one week.

How did we do when those starters played? We couldn't run the ball to save our lives. Pass protection was terrible. We scored an average of 16 points a game. The team was poorly prepared entering the season. That is on Ron; no one else.


Not sure we went into the season healthier than we have been in years. Gettis wasn't playing, Beason played none in the preseason, Davis only played in 1 preseason game for a few snaps. We were nursing quite a few players along at the beginning.

The injuries weren't an excuse but a fact of what happened. What we saw though was that Rivera did a great job with the backups getting them ready to play and we actually improved. I think that had more to do with Rivera telling them they were playing for their jobs and there was increased urgency for the young guys to make a mark when they got in there.

The problem wasn't just injuries but many starters not playing up to their capacity. I would agree that the team wasn't prepared and they thought they would be much better than they were. Several players have alluded to the fact that they were overly confident and thought things would be easier and found out they were wrong. The question is whether they learned from that and will prepare better or repeat the same mistake.

#26 Mr. Scot

Mr. Scot

    Football Historian

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 36,747 posts
  • LocationSC

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:25 AM

Opinions on Ron Rivera tend to be about as balanced and evenhanded as opinions on Cam Newton.

In other words, not the least bit :unsure:

It's either all his fault or none of his fault. Most don't take the time to look at the big picture and see that there are good things as well as bad. As with Newton, it's easier to just adopt the stance that he can do no right or he can do no wrong. That way rather than having to think through specifics, you can just skip to calling anyone who disagrees with you names.

Yes, ultimately he is accountable for all, but no that doesn't automatically mean every failure is directly his fault. There was another guy responsible for a lot of past mistakes too. He's looking for work right now and we're looking for his replacement.

#27 panthers55

panthers55

    Starting all over again

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 16,459 posts
  • LocationAt the lake

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:32 AM

Opinions on Ron Rivera tend to be about as balanced and evenhanded as opinions on Cam Newton.

In other words, not the least bit :unsure:

It's either all his fault or none of his fault. Most don't take the time to look at the big picture and see that there are good things as well as bad. As with Newton, it's easier to just adopt the stance that he can do no right or he can do no wrong. That way rather than having to think through specifics, you can just skip to calling anyone who disagrees with you names.

Yes, ultimately he is accountable for all, but no that doesn't automatically mean every failure is directly his fault. There was another guy responsible for a lot of past mistakes too. He's looking for work right now and we're looking for his replacement.


This. He admitted making mistakes and in private would likely be even more open about his issues. He struggled as did the team. The question for me is whether he learned from his mistakes or is going to keep repeating them.

#28 CPF4LIFE

CPF4LIFE

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,466 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:41 AM

Taking timeouts home with him
Not challenging opposing offenses and letting them run the same damn play all the way downfield to score
Needing one yard to win a game or ice a game and not letting Cam get it. (Cam can pick up one yard in his sleep)
And not able to evaluate the right personnel to use in the game. (Nakamura the worst safety in the NFL)
Cant even find a reliable kicker for the team.

Pretty much why its his fault.

#29 Marguide

Marguide

    South of the Border

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,377 posts

Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

This. He admitted making mistakes and in private would likely be even more open about his issues. He struggled as did the team. The question for me is whether he learned from his mistakes or is going to keep repeating them.


I think I'm one of the few in the "anti-Ron" camp that is not overly worried about his time management and in-game decision making. He should improve in this area. Hopefully, he will have gained enough experience to be a bit more aggressive in squeaking out points at the end of the half.

It's the offensive staff I'm worried about. In my opinion, Chud cost us a winning record this year. His early season play calling was atrocious. There was no commitment to the running game, he had the o-line in a 2 point stance playing from their heels, and we tried to finesse our way to victories. It failed miserably, as we all saw.

If I was certain that Chud had learned his lessons about the need for more balance, about the importance of getting the o-line and the backs in a rhythm, and about the need for shorter passing routes when the other team is getting pressure, then I would feel differently about him. And if I knew that we could count on Chud going forward, I would be okay with Rivera's return. Unfortunately, there is no reason to believe that Chud won't revert to his tendency to out-think himself, and there is no reason to believe that Ron will either replace him or effectively control him. And it's a damn shame because I love our defensive staff and hate to start over there if we decide to part ways with Ron.

#30 Silent Majority

Silent Majority

    Fuggin' Panther Fan

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,365 posts
  • LocationPrinceton, freaking, New Jersey.

Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:14 PM

My issues with RR are, personnel decisions. Not being willing/able to adjust the defense within the same drive (see CHI game). Being half a head coach. You are a fuging HC, not a defensive coordinator! You cannot just wash your hands of the offensive side of the ball. Keeping Chud. Chud pissed away the season early and by transitive property, RR did as well.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.