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We should at least take a hard look at Chip Kelly


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#46 beastson

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:36 AM

Im saying what's happening in Washington won't work forever. I can almost guarantee it won't be as successful next year

I don't want our offense to be like that

#47 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

Come on, rayzor. I would think you'd be more optimistic. Getting "stuck with the status quo"? Have more faith, bro. If Rivera is here, I guarantee we'll be in the postseason.

By our record and all appearances, we seemed so far away this past season, but we were surprisingly close to not only the playoffs, but greatness. The experience for Ron and Cam were invaluable, and sets us up for a good luck at playing in January, 2014.


I like the fact that you are being so call optimistic, but guarantee the postseason is crazy.

#48 Doc Holiday

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

This is who I want, but it is just a dream for me. Our cozy comfy blanket of mediocrity and along with people thinking it takes 3-5 years for teams to change will be enough noise to keep Rivera around for another wasted year. I didn't want Rivera to begin with and am still not happy with where we are going. Winning meaningless games when we are out of playoff contention shouldn't mean Rivera keeps his job, but sadly it is what we have witnessed for 10+ years in this organization.

Cam has improved greatly, but how far can a defensive coach and an offensive coordinator with mush for brains take Cam's talents?

Dream person for the Panthers? I'd say hardly

No matter what you think of what he did at Oregon that offense will not fully translate to the NFL, it's not opinion it's just fact, there are many reason why it won't work much of it has to deal with the differences in clock management between the College and Pro game.

So basically you are wanting a guy that's biggest claim to fame is a offense that wont work in the pro's?

now could he run a modified version of it for the pro's and still be a success, yeah but he's going to have to go through a trail and error process before he perfects his offense for the NFL and right now I don't know if that's something we want to be dealing with.

#49 ElkinPanthersFan

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:55 AM

He coaches at Oregon but I figured you'd know that since you don't prefer his offense. His offense is so terrible that Bill Belichick went to see it and how he runs his practices. It just so happens that NE had more explosive plays in the past few years. http://www.bostonglo...rN6J/story.html

"A misperception about Kelly, he said, is that he's scheme-specific, with a system that might not translate to the NFL. Kelly's attractiveness to NFL teams is based more on a philosophy of speedy play than his scheme, and he said Wednesday that he adapts to his personnel."

http://articles.phil...a-kenjon-barner

We have such good clock management already though don't we?

#50 top dawg

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

I think Cam grew up a lot this season, and became a much better QB then last year to finish out the season.

that by itself made this season worth watching, my biggest question about Cam going into the season would be to see if he could adjust to the defenses after they have adjusted to him and stated as much before this past season ever began, it was the $100m question.

Cam has answered it with a resounding yes, basically playing like the best QB in the NFL over his final 6 games of the season and getting over his sophomore slump, from here on out Cam is only going to get better and the sky is the limit, and that's what panthers fans should be taking away from this season but many are not.

This season in a way was a huge success just many don't know it.


I think that it was successful in a way. A "huge success" may be a stretch.

Yes, I do have lingering questions about Cam and Rivera, but I believe that Cam has the tools necessary to be a successful franchise-level QB, and I also believe that Rivera has what it takes to be a successful HC. My main question about Cam is whether he will commit to honing mechanics, and putting in the work in the film room watching opposing defenses, and watching himself to see how he can rise above whatever they throw at him with consistency. My main question about Rivera is, obviously, whether this season has taught him to consistently lead as if the buck stops with him on every play and down. My biggest question is Chud, actually. Does he really know what he is doing? As such, will Ron reel his ass in when he gets too cute for his own good (which speaks to my main question about Ron)?

#51 rayzor

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:01 PM

I will say it is rather frustrating that JR fired Hurney months ago and wasn't ready to start interviewing GM candidates in Monday. Makes me think he never planned on firing RR but wanted the new GM to "think" they had a say so in keeping RR, but they really didn't.

A lot of times the first team to interview gets the guy...ask Arizona about this.

I don't understand this take your time approach. JR has had months to vet the candidates and I just don't understand the logic.

he couldn't start interviewing or even talking to teams about potential GMs until after the season was over...at least no one that actually had a job with a team anyway.

#52 AceBoogie

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:03 PM

He coaches at Oregon but I figured you'd know that since you don't prefer his offense. His offense is so terrible that Bill Belichick went to see it and how he runs his practices. It just so happens that NE had more explosive plays in the past few years. http://www.bostonglo...rN6J/story.html

"A misperception about Kelly, he said, is that he's scheme-specific, with a system that might not translate to the NFL. Kelly's attractiveness to NFL teams is based more on a philosophy of speedy play than his scheme, and he said Wednesday that he adapts to his personnel."

http://articles.phil...a-kenjon-barner

We have such good clock management already though don't we?


God bless you sir and your intelligence. You can't tell these people nothing. They've gotten used to losing.

#53 top dawg

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:04 PM

I like the fact that you are being so call optimistic, but guarantee the postseason is crazy.


Well, I wouldn't normally do it, but I liked the growth I saw in Rivera toward the latter half of the season, and, of course, I just can't see myself betting against Cam going "ham" his third year in the league.




I know I may be in the minority, but I do not want Chip Kelly. I've seen "college acts" fail too many times in the NFL, and fail miserably, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

#54 AceBoogie

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

Well, I wouldn't normally do it, but I liked the growth I saw in Rivera toward the latter half of the season, and, of course, I just can't see myself betting against Cam going "ham" his third year in the league.




I know I may be in the minority, but I do not want Chip Kelly. I've seen "college acts" fail too many times in the NFL, and fail miserably, especially on the defensive side of the ball.


That's just it tho we thought we saw that same growth in Ron last season when we finished strong.

The only difference between last season and this one is Sean Peyton. Think about it...


#55 rayzor

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:10 PM

Come on, rayzor. I would think you'd be more optimistic. Getting "stuck with the status quo"? Have more faith, bro. If Rivera is here, I guarantee we'll be in the postseason.

By our record and all appearances, we seemed so far away this past season, but we were surprisingly close to not only the playoffs, but greatness. The experience for Ron and Cam were invaluable, and sets us up for a good luck at playing in January, 2014.

it's the stautus quo. it's a regime that after two seasons has failed to prove it can even reach .500. it's the status quo.

why be excited about a guy that hasn't gotten us wins yet after two years of trying?

i'm not impressed with his whole body of work as a game and team manager. i'm not impressed with the overall results. i saw a coaching staff that was reluctant to change what it was trying to do until too late and that was making bad decisions at the end of games.

the experience is invaluable only if it produces desired effects, which it hasn't. until rivera actually produces a winning season...not just a winning month...i can't see how anyone can guarantee that he can. the only guarantee i want to see is that if he's here and he can't produce back to back winning seasons starting next year and can't get us into the playoffs that he'll be gone. no excuses. either win or we try to find someone that can.

i'm just tired of losing seasons being so accepted and rationalized.

#56 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:16 PM

Is Chip Kelly the next Jimmy Johnson, or is he the next Steve Spurrier? It will be interesting to see how it all plays out eventually, but my guess is that Chip will be back in the college ranks in 3-4 years. I doubt we will be in the hunt regardless, unless we hire a GM soon, and Chip Kelly really likes the guy who beat him in the National Championship game.

#57 rayzor

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:31 PM

he's the next bill walsh, don coryell, ron erhardt/ray perkins or at the very least the next great coach who will accept nothing but greatness from his players and no quarter given to his opponents.

he's the guy that is going to be taking the game to another level. his offense is already being used and half the teams in the playoffs are using similar offenses to his.

we have several teams using the read option quite a bit. we have a team using a no huddle offense. we have a team using his hurry up one word playcalling system.

bits and pieces are being used.

the truth is, though, that it's not all that revolutionary. it's doing what those other innovators did and take what is already being done and build on it.

the read option offense is nothing more than a run first offense, except that instead of the defense knowing who is going to get the ball, they now have to decide between a couple guys.

he runs a run first offense that forces the defense to throw everything they have at it to try and stop it and they make it look like they are going to run it every down (which they do most of the time). when defenses throw everything they have at it, they leave themselves exposed in other areas and the kelly offense is built to take advantage of those weaknesses that have been exposed. the defense never knows what the offense is going to do and they can never tell from how the offense is lined up, because they have all of their plays from their 200+ page playbook coming from just a handful of formations.

and it's not like kelly doesn't use more traditional concepts, either. his running game opens up the passing game and once those two are established, they start using play action, screens, and everything else we are used to seeing...but each time the defenses are trying to set up to stop the run. and the pace at which all this happens gives no time for defenses to get set up or really look to see what kelly's offense is going to do.

so tell me how in the world will this not work? what is it about this run first offense that wouldn't 1) fit our personnel and 2) be effective in the NFL?

it's unproven as a base offense because no one has run it well and even at that, it's far from a given that kelly would even use the read option because that's not what his offense is based on...it's on doing one thing so well that defenses are forced to respect it enough by putting extra men into stopping it, and then make the defense believe that you are going to be running that every play and then using that against them. it's directing the energy of the enemy in a direction of your choosing and then taking advantage of the weaknesses that are exposed and doing it at a pace that is incredibly difficult to keep up with.

#58 top dawg

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

I get what what some of you are saying, but this year was not like last year. Our staff and personnel have one more very important---perhaps critical---year of experience. Before this past season, everyone had their head all up in the clouds, notwithstanding an entirely new staff and new personnel that were, quite frankly, still flying by the seat of their pants. You had a n extremely young team that was still learning how to win on a professional level. No one had their feet on the ground because of decidedly marginal success. This past season, the defeats came fast and furious in September and October, and suddenly the reality set in that the honeymoon was truly over and that true success comes with true grit and determination.

Say what you want, but Cam was still a neophyte at the beginning of the season, and his "sophomore slump" proved it. Once the light clicked on for Cam (and Rivera and Chud), the not so mysterious Cam was as unstoppable as an NFL QB can be, even though seasoned defenses had an entire off-season to prepare for him. To me this bodes well for the future. Last year we were banking on fool's gold, this year we saw a team really go through it---with the pressure on---and succeed. Everyone, especially the players, could have packed it in by mid-season and tanked, but that didn't happen. This past season may appear to be like last season on the surface, but it was different in so many key ways.

As for Sean Payton making all the difference, I say blah blah humbug. Drew Brees is the capstone of the Saints organization, and if we continue to get pressure on him, which we can with CJ and Krak, then we will be a thorn in his side for the rest of his career.

#59 rayzor

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

I get what what some of you are saying, but this year was not like last year. Our staff and personnel have one more very important---perhaps critical---year of experience. Before this past season, everyone had their head all up in the clouds, notwithstanding an entirely new staff and new personnel that were, quite frankly, still flying by the seat of their pants. You had a n extremely young team that was still learning how to win on a professional level. No one had their feet on the ground because of decidedly marginal success. This past season, the defeats came fast and furious in September and October, and suddenly the reality set in that the honeymoon was truly over and that true success comes with true grit and determination.

Say what you want, but Cam was still a neophyte at the beginning of the season, and his "sophomore slump" proved it. Once the light clicked on for Cam (and Rivera and Chud), the not so mysterious Cam was as unstoppable as an NFL QB can be, even though seasoned defenses had an entire off-season to prepare for him. To me this bodes well for the future. Last year we were banking on fool's gold, this year we saw a team really go through it---with the pressure on---and succeed. Everyone, especially the players, could have packed it in by mid-season and tanked, but that didn't happen. This past season may appear to be like last season on the surface, but it was different in so many key ways.

As for Sean Payton making all the difference, I say blah blah humbug. Drew Brees is the capstone of the Saints organization, and if we continue to get pressure on him, which we can with CJ and Krak, then we will be a thorn in his side for the rest of his career.

i hope you're right, esp. since it seems like we'll be going with rivera next year.

come training camp time i'll probably be homeristic again, but i can't see it coming easily or with as much enthusiasm.

#60 DOMOMAN

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 01:20 PM

ESPNs new Insider Piece lists the Panthers as the Number 1 option for Chip Kelly in the NFL

Benefit: The ideal QB to bring Kelly to the pro game


Carolina may not have an opening just yet, but we're looking at best fits that could make sense now -- not top openings -- and the Panthers would match well with Kelly.

This week, we've heard endless debates about whether Prototype Made-For-College Coach® Chip Kelly can become a successful NFL head coach. Meanwhile, the Redskins are headed to the playoffs under Prototype Made-For-NFL Coach® Mike Shanahan. That matters, because that Redskins team is going to the playoffs in a season in which it busted out zone-read plays regularly and its starting quarterback ran the ball 120 times in 15 games, with 77 of those coming as designed runs. Meanwhile, Kelly's starting QB at Oregon this year, Marcus Mariota -- in a scheme some dismiss as something that will never work in the NFL -- had run 98 times in 12 games heading into the Fiesta Bowl.


So consider the raw numbers: Kelly's offense exposed his QB to hits via runs and scrambles about 8.2 times per game, an almost identical rate to Shanahan's 8.0 times a game. Break it down on a per-play basis, and the discrepancy barely changes.




Posted Image
Elsa/Getty ImagesCam Newton could be a great QB fit for Kelly's offense.

Kelly's offense is not Shanahan's offense, but let's get this out of the way as a starting point: If Kelly can be prosecuted by analysts as a guy running a "college" offense that is criminally negligent in exposing his QB to hits, Shanahan might as well occupy the same jail cell after directing the NFL's offensive story of the season in Washington. Offenses evolve up levels, and they evolve down. Close observers of Oregon's offense know this, and note that Oregon does a lot more that would be considered "old school" even by NFL standards than many realize. Don't let the pace blind you. As Chris Brownrecently wrote in a fantastic explanation, "Oregon is successful because it does well what good teams have always done well, albeit with a slightly more modern wardrobe."

And the Oregon passing offense has also been brutally efficient. Mariota ranked sixth nationally in passer rating this season while Darron Thomas ranked 11th last season and 17th the season before that.



In Carolina, Kelly would be handed a QB in Cam Newton who would create the easiest transition for him in terms of having a QB fully capable of taking a hit when exposed as a runner, and one fully capable of marrying those running skills to a down-the-field passing game. Again, what Kelly would bring to the NFL would not leave people shaking their heads, believing some sort of revolution is upon us. But based on what he does well, it's hard to find a better place to start in terms of offensive personnel than Carolina.

And as Shanahan, with his own suddenly "gimmicky" offense, might re-direct when asked about how that offense made the Redskins' season: "What about the defense?"




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