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Dispelling some half-truths about Shula's time in Tampa


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#46 rodeo

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:11 PM

You know, there's a reason that complicated offenses don't have a stellar postseason record: when the games get tight execution becomes far more important than subtlety. If this teams plays a bit conservatively but Cam can execute his decisions quickly and improvise when the situation calls for it, we might fare better than trying to over complicate things like Chud did earlier in the year.

This team has to be able to win their fair share of plays with no trickery involved before it can try to get cute; that's one problem that Chud had, in winning the exotic plays and losing the consistent ones.

So you're arguing in support of changing the offense, rather than supporting Shula? If we just wanted to change the offense to a more simple system, we still could have found someone who hasn't been a complete failure.

#47 Marguide

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:13 PM

You know, there's a reason that complicated offenses don't have a stellar postseason record: when the games get tight execution becomes far more important than subtlety. If this teams plays a bit conservatively but Cam can execute his decisions quickly and improvise when the situation calls for it, we might fare better than trying to over complicate things like Chud did earlier in the year.

This team has to be able to win their fair share of plays with no trickery involved before it can try to get cute; that's one problem that Chud had, in winning the exotic plays and losing the consistent ones.


Perhaps not you specifically, but many are saying in essence, "well Shula will be better than Chud for reason x, y, and z". Or that he's better than Shurmur.

Please remember we had the whole universe of coaches to choose from, both NFL and NCAA (at least those that were open to a new job). It is going to be tough to convince me that anything in Shula's history indicated that he was our best selection.

So others say to just be patient and let things play out. The only problem is we are potentially wasting a critical year of having a really special QB. We need to stop settling for someone that might be okay, and build an organization top to bottom that gives us the best chance for success.

#48 tiger7_88

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:14 PM

Those are fair points OP. What about his time @ Alabama?


Mike Shula took over a Bama program that had just been sentenced to five years NCAA probation, banned from bowl games for two years, and penalized the forfeiture of 21 scholarships over a period of three years (due to a Bama booster paying $200,000 for high school DT Albert Means).

In his four years as head coach under the harshest NCAA penalties ever placed upon an SEC team, Bama went 26-24.

Nick Saban took over from Shula after the NCAA penalties had already had their effect and won the national championship in 2009 with seniors and red-shirt seniors recruited by Shula.

#49 tiger7_88

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

So when coaches are replaced, and the new ones come in and do much better than previous staffs with essentially the same set of players, it's all luck?

Coaching matters a lot. The only time it doesn't is when people are forced to defend mediocre ones, apparently.


I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you or the OP, I just want to point this out...

Roster turnover in the NFL is probably heavier than in any of the other major sports. Likely due to the fact that unlike baseball and basketball, contracts aren't guaranteed.

So when a "new coaching staff" with a "new philosophy" comes in, many of the players that they are using are likely new players. New draft. New free-agents. Probably about 15 new players on an NFL roster per year (just to guess an average).

#50 MHS831

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

I think it is ridiculous to think that the 32-35 year old Shula would resurface in 48 year old Shula. Experience matters. To go back 14 years and talk about his record would be important if that was relevent today, but it has not. In 1995, he was probably too young and green for the job. Hired because his dad was the great Don Shula, coach of the perfect Dolphins just 20-some odd years earlier.

And yes, I am a homer. This is a Panther blog for Panther fans. Since nobody knows how Shula has evolved, why assume the worst?
A large percentage of Panther nation (the non-homers) makes no sense:

2011: Panthers win 6 games. Cam is the reason, but we all love Chud because we no longer punt on 2nd down. Chud might get head coach offers--Panther nation holds its breath---whew!! so close to losing the offensive genius. Rivera is no Fox, Yeah. He is telling it like it is and going to turn this tub around. Rivera is the man.
10 games later: Chud is dumb now (according to Panther nation) and needs to be run out of town on a rail. He has been exposed. Rivera should be fired too, after 26 games. Even though the GM was acting like a crazed idiot for the past 3 years, Rivera suddenly becomes inept.
2012, last six games and season ends: Panthers finish 7-9. Win last 4 games, 5 of last 6. Panther nation upset that Rivera still here after only 2 seasons. Do not like Chud anymore, but he is better now than he was in early November. Chud gets head coaching job in Cleveland. Rivera keeps his job in Charlotte. Panther nation can't believe it because they know football more than the Browns and the Panther front offices.
2013: Shula given a second chance to be offensive coordinator in his career. Panther Nation upset because what he did at the end of last century was not impressive. Want to storm castle. Shula has not called a play in the NFL in 14 years, but they fear that he will do exactly as he did in Tampa Bay. It is determined that the non-homer Panther fans have psychic powers and prophecize to all the gloomy horizon we all face because of what happened with different players on a different team in a different era of the NFL. Those who do not buy in, the "homers", are dubbed as being silly and stupid.

Shula has seen this offense work and he knows what causes it to break down. He knows how its fickle and flaky and very talented QB thinks. Sometimes it is more about relationships and trust than it is about past winning and losing, X's and O's. If he is a competitor, then he has been waiting for 14 years to redeem himself--he will not take this opportunity lightly. I expect the middle aged Shula to show the world how much the young Shula learned in 14 years.

Don't bother arguing, There are no formulas for success or recipes that put you in the playoffs. There is no profile that determines which coordinators will be successful and which are destined to fail. If you think you know the answer based on stats from 1998, good for you.

#51 SZ James

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:01 PM

Confirmation bias: the official thread

#52 KendrickPanther

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:21 PM

Panther fans have a right to be mad. Don't try to tell us this is chicken salad. We know it's chicken poo. The most concerning part is if it doesn't work out then we are hiring a new coach and giving him a year to figure things out...we could go 6-7 years(since 2008) without playoffs before the staff is built into a competitive nucleus. I'm fugging tired of waiting. I have an unhealthy lifestyle, If I'm lucky the good lord will grant me 15-20 years. I want to die happy dammit. I need to see my Panthers win a Super Bowl.

#53 Doc Holiday

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:23 PM

Lol I like it when people who know the least shout the most

welcome to the huddle

#54 KendrickPanther

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:26 PM

You guys are trying to pull out numbers and excuses from the internet but people that lived it, people that watched the train of thought. They all agree he was terrible.

#55 SZ James

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:29 PM

^^lol I think that's the first time anyone's addressed Zod with "welcome to the huddle"

Spoiler


#56 IamSoClutch

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:40 PM

http://www.charlotte...-promotion.html

Cam seems to agree with the shula hire

#57 Doc Holiday

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

^^lol I think that's the first time anyone's addressed Zod with "welcome to the huddle"

Spoiler

you try too hard

#58 teeray

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:59 PM

You guys are trying to pull out numbers and excuses from the internet but people that lived it, people that watched the train of thought. They all agree he was terrible.


90% of the football watching world thinks their team's OC is terrible and their backup QB is awesome.

#59 fieryprophet

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

Perhaps not you specifically, but many are saying in essence, "well Shula will be better than Chud for reason x, y, and z". Or that he's better than Shurmur.

Please remember we had the whole universe of coaches to choose from, both NFL and NCAA (at least those that were open to a new job). It is going to be tough to convince me that anything in Shula's history indicated that he was our best selection.

So others say to just be patient and let things play out. The only problem is we are potentially wasting a critical year of having a really special QB. We need to stop settling for someone that might be okay, and build an organization top to bottom that gives us the best chance for success.


Let's take the most optimistic viewpoint for a second, because we all know the pessimistic version in great, worrisome detail. But let's try the optimistic view:

If Shula was hired for continuity, and the coaching staff isn't utterly retarded, then Shula will be implementing Chudzinski's playbook with his own touches, and will not change it wholesale. Rivera has always been adamant that he inherited his offensive philosophy from Norv Turner, so the vertical passing game will not being going away, and in order for Shula to have convinced that he deserved the job he had to have convinced them that he would use a similar philosophy, otherwise there is no continuity. If this is the system and philosophy Shula will work to continue, than I'm a lot less concerned about his past, because his past isn't relevant to this offense. If anything, he may be far more amenable to allowing Cam to make his own calls than Chudzinski was, and since the development of Cam is priority #1 for this franchise that can be a major benefit to this change.

#60 Doc Holiday

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 12:13 AM

90% of the football watching world thinks their team's OC is terrible and their backup QB is awesome.

true, this is why i thought all those that wanted Chud gone where freaking idiots, name another Panthers OC that put together back to back top 10 offenses(I know the panthers finished 12th on the season but they were 60 total yards away from 7th in total offense for the season)


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