194 replies to this topic

[Dpantherman]

I agree that Harbaugh wouldn't have come here, but it wasn't for the reason you mentioned. He wanted to stay in the Bay area, and I'm not sure JR would have been willing to put up the kind of money he was looking for.

Our roster was not bad at all when Rivera took over. We had a #1 pick, great RB's, what was thought at the time to be a very, very solid o-line, a great LB corps (remember, Beason was still "healthy" back then), and a secondary that featured Gamble and Godfrey (which many analysts seem to value more than we do). Our cupboard was far from bare.

Harbaugh has also turned over a big part of that roster since he took over, so it's not like he had a team ready-made.

That too, but I still won't concede that the 49ers had (and still do) a much better roster.

[FootballMaestro]

Jim's done a good job with the 49ers, but he's not an elite coach, and we would be marginally better at best (and likely worse) if he was our coach with our current talent.

I politely, respectfully disagree.

I think on leadership, motivation, executive type management and decision making alone (not including the litany of in game Rivera issues I mentioned), Harbaugh would have a better record than Rivera most likely a winner, even a playoff one.

Remember, if the Panthers don't incredulously blow the Chicago, 1st Altanta and 2nd Tampa Bay games--alone, their 10-6. And this doesn't include the very winnable Dallas, Seattle and KC games/debacle as well.

So you're trying to say, that Harbaugh's better QB coaching, on and off field decision making and leadership, as well as coaching acumen over Rivera (not including all Rivera's problems), wouldn't make the Panthers at least 3 games better than Rivera (especially in those first three I mentioned)?

I'm not even sure you would believe that. C'mon!! The Panthers were in practically all their games in 2012. And look at the change and impact Harbaugh made to a previously bad 49er team.

OK. Since you feel the way you do. I guess a better question would be: Do you think Rivera could have gone to San Francisco, and turned them around the way Harbaugh did?... Therein lies your answer.

[fieryprophet]

That too, but I still won't concede that the 49ers had (and still do) a much better roster.

They have a much more well-rounded roster. See, Panther fans get this hair up their ass because they can reel off names like Kuechly, Thomas Davis, Beason, Hardy, CJ, DeAngelo, Stewart, Steve Smith, Cam, etc. and think we're loaded with talent. But notice that all of those names make up a grand total of five positions! We're heavy on linebackers and running backs, good on DEs and QB, and weak everywhere else. Poor secondary, poor defensive tackles, poor receiving corps outside of Smitty, and also had very poor offensive line play this year.

Now contrast that with a 49ers team, that even if it's not burgeoning with superstars, has solid to great players almost across the board, with a young and dynamic QB, great running game, great offensive line, good defensive line, elite linebackers, great secondary, elite tight end, and above average receiving corps.

[Cyberjag]

OK. Since you feel the way you do. I guess a better question would be: Do you think Rivera could have gone to San Francisco, and turned them around the way Harbaugh did?... Therein lies your answer.

Personally, I don't.

[fieryprophet]

I politely, respectfully disagree.

I think on leadership, motivation, executive type management and decision making alone (not including the litany of in game Rivera issues I mentioned), Harbaugh would have a better record than Rivera most likely a winner, even a playoff one.

Remember, if the Panthers don't incredulously blow the Chicago, 1st Altanta and 2nd Tampa Bay games--alone, their 10-6. And this doesn't include the very winnable Dallas, Seattle and KC games/debacle as well.

So you're trying to say, that Harbaugh's better QB coaching, on and off field decision making and leadership, as well as coaching acumen over Rivera (not including all Rivera's problems), wouldn't make the Panthers at least 3 games better than Rivera (especially in those first three I mentioned)?

I'm not even sure you would believe that. C'mon!!

I'm supposed to believe that a coach with one of the worse challenge ratios in the NFL, and inexplicably did not know a game could end in a tie is somehow an elite decision maker or game manager? Name one game Harbaugh has "managed" to victory: the Falcons marched right down the field and he was one pass interference call yesterday away from the Falcons moving on to the Super Bowl. just because they failed to do their job doesn't mean Harbaugh was doing particularly well himself: for crying out loud, we want to talk about someone sticking with players too long, how is David Akers still his kicker?

And Rivera didn't blow the 1st Atlanta game, Nakamura did. Unless you're seriously going to imagine that he was supposed to know Haruki would screw up when he hadn't even been in the situation before. It may surprise the 20/20 hindsight dipshits on this board but no one was mad to see the ninja out there until after that fiasco, not before. The Chicago game was a literal failure, as everyone in the building knew they were targeting Norman. I will say, however, that since he's been benched at the comments Rivera has made about that benching that it's pretty obvious he wasn't being coached to play so far off, Norman simply refused to do what he was told in fear of being burned. Either way, Harbugh's track record in similar situations isn't particularly better.

[Dpantherman]

They have a much more well-rounded roster. See, Panther fans get this hair up their ass because they can reel off names like Kuechly, Thomas Davis, Beason, Hardy, CJ, DeAngelo, Stewart, Steve Smith, Cam, etc. and think we're loaded with talent. But notice that all of those names make up a grand total of five positions! We're heavy on linebackers and running backs, good on DEs and QB, and weak everywhere else. Poor secondary, poor defensive tackles, poor receiving corps outside of Smitty, and also had very poor offensive line play this year.

Now contrast that with a 49ers team, that even if it's not burgeoning with superstars, has solid to great players almost across the board, with a young and dynamic QB, great running game, great offensive line, good defensive line, elite linebackers, great secondary, elite tight end, and above average receiving corps.

The front 7, offensive line, and secondary blow us out of the water. Not even close.

[fieryprophet]

I politely, respectfully disagree.

I think on leadership, motivation, executive type management and decision making alone (not including the litany of in game Rivera issues I mentioned), Harbaugh would have a better record than Rivera most likely a winner, even a playoff one.

Remember, if the Panthers don't incredulously blow the Chicago, 1st Altanta and 2nd Tampa Bay games--alone, their 10-6. And this doesn't include the very winnable Dallas, Seattle and KC games/debacle as well.

So you're trying to say, that Harbaugh's better QB coaching, on and off field decision making and leadership, as well as coaching acumen over Rivera (not including all Rivera's problems), wouldn't make the Panthers at least 3 games better than Rivera (especially in those first three I mentioned)?

I'm not even sure you would believe that. C'mon!! The Panthers were in practically all their games in 2012. And look at the change and impact Harbaugh made to a previously bad 49er team.

OK. Since you feel the way you do. I guess a better question would be: Do you think Rivera could have gone to San Francisco, and turned them around the way Harbaugh did?... Therein lies your answer.

Rivera coaching that San Fransisco defense? Keeping in mind how much our defense has improved even with much lesser players? I truly don't know, but you can imagine it would have been a hellacious team. I don't think his vertical philosophy would have allowed for Smith to have been a competent QB, but he could have worked with Kaepernick fairly well, considering his experience with Cam.

[fieryprophet]

The front 7, offensive line, and secondary blow us out of the water. Not even close.

There you go. We have some great players, but we're unbalanced like hell.

[FootballMaestro]

Rivera coaching that San Fransisco defense? Keeping in mind how much our defense has improved even with much lesser players? I truly don't know, but you can imagine it would have been a hellacious team. I don't think his vertical philosophy would have allowed for Smith to have been a competent QB, but he could have worked with Kaepernick fairly well, considering his experience with Cam.

You keep forgetting that Rivera is a horrible off the field Manager, Decision Maker and Leader; not including his much discussed on field coaching foibles.

Coaching is not just X's and O's or what happens ON the field (though we know Rivera doesn't always do those things well). Coaching is also what happens OFF the field.

And there's nothing in Rivera's resume so far (until maybe the middle of this season; but we'll have to wait till next year), that shows he would have turned around that San Francisco team the way Harbaugh did. Rivera's still learning on the job. Harbaugh is a proven leader, CEO-type, decision maker, and effective inspiration of men. This has been told and displayed. Rivera is not; until shown otherwise. That's the big difference.

[fieryprophet]

You keep forgetting that Rivera is a horrible off the field Manager, Decision Maker and Leader; not including his much discussed on field coaching foibles.

Coaching is not just X's and O's or what happens ON the field (though we know Rivera doesn't always do those things well). Coaching is also what happens OFF the field.

And there's nothing in Rivera's resume so far (until maybe the middle of this season; but we'll have to wait till next year), that shows he would have turned around that San Francisco team the way Harbaugh did. Rivera's still learning on the job. That's the big difference.

The man who had his players fighting hard from 2-8 to finish 7-9 in a lost season isn't a leader? Let's see how Harbaugh coaches when the chips are down before proclaiming him such a terrific leader.

[FootballMaestro]

The man who had his players fighting hard from 2-8 to finish 7-9 in a lost season isn't a leader? Let's see how Harbaugh coaches when the chips are down before proclaiming him such a terrific leader.

I also said (cause I knew you would go that route) "effective leader".

What's the point of you're players fighting for and playing hard for you, and you still can't win the close games (and are out of the playoff running around the middle of the season)?

If the players believed in Rivera so much, maybe they would have won some of those earlier games, and not had lost so many of those close ones, where he's 1-12 the past two years.

The question can be asked, when your players allegededly play so hard for you, but you're 1-12 in 7 pt games the past two seasons, then maybe the coaching/coach is the real problem?? It's certainly not cause the players don't play hard (though that was the problem earlier in the season, in the 1st TB, Giants and Denver games). Rivera has just been a mediocre to below average coach in most areas, which you couldn't say the same about Harbaugh. I'm sorry.

[MadHatter]

Dear God the Huddle sucks lately.

[FootballMaestro]

Personally, I don't.

Neither do I.

And I certainly feel Harbaugh would have done a better job here (which I detailed earlier).

[fieryprophet]

I also said (cause I knew you would go that route) "effective leader".

What's the point of you're players fighting for and playing hard for you, and you still can't win the close games (and are out of the playoff running around the middle of the season)?

If the players believed in Rivera so much, maybe they would have won some of those earlier games, and not had lost so many of those close ones, where he's 1-12 the past two years.

The question can be asked, when your players allegededly play so hard for you, but you're 1-12 in 7 pt games the past two seasons, then maybe the coaching/coach is the real problem?? It's certainly not cause the players don't play hard (though that was the problem earlier in the season, in the 1st TB, Giants and Denver games). Rivera has just been a mediocre to below average coach in most areas, which you couldn't say the same about Harbaugh. I'm sorry.

Close game records are essentially random: http://www.grantland...-best-nfl-stats

[FootballMaestro]

Close game records are essentially random: http://www.grantland...-best-nfl-stats

Yeah, but it's been two years in a row, and he's 1-12 in them.

Nobody's that unlucky.

I think Rivera (and his poor out of game and in game preparation) has a lot to do with that.

Now, you're trying to make excuses for Rivera, when he himself admitted he's made mistakes, and could have used an experienced former HC to help guide him. So some of that's on Rivera, and even he recognized/admitted that.