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The NFL Shield At Midfield

40 Years of Legal Abortion

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^ that. otherwise every lowlife deadbeat sticking his dick in some chick and knocking her up could just say "yeah I demand an abortion" and by default never spend a dime of money on his kid

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What I agree and don't agree with is not relevant to this discussion, IMO

What a woman does with her body is her choice.

Her sins are her's to deal with in her own way.

this is where i'm torn. it's ultimately a philosophical decision regarding where life begins, and the answer is what separates the issue from being one of women's rights from being one of human rights. either way it is a social issue that men can not simply be removed from the conversation, as even the most fully-extended women's rights should in no way exclude a holistic dialogue to hash out a conclusion.

I'm not entirely sure that "I'm a guy therefore I have no say" isn't just a cop-out (tempting on so explosive an issue.)

but as with most things I'm still filtering information and attempting to determine where I stand, so I'm open to data and arguments that expose my reasoning as faulty

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I have a feeling as science advances and we find more out about consciousness, we'll see people not being able to have late term abortions or eat much in the way of meat.

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First off...people need to come to a decision if they care when life begins when contrasted against the wants of the host mother.

Probably 95% of all Americans see the need for instances where life of the mother is something that has to be mandatory in any legislation. But sadly, liberals lump mental states and all sorts of other issues that equate to "life" of the mother. Make it simple and direct to having to be a direct threat to the physical health of the mother.

Rape legislation could be done too, but I'm of the opinion that in cases of rape...a police report MUST be filed, if the alleged father is known prosecute to the fullest extent of the law. Again, a vast majority of Americans would be for abortion in cases of rape, but even with current laws requiring Planned Parenthood to turn all rape cases into the authorities for statutory rape or violent rape investigations...PP chooses to thwart the law and refuse to report.

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I think there is a fairly well defined line between an actual life and a potential life. When you get into the late stages of a pregnancy those lines start to get blurred, but for the first trimester or so that fetus is surely not a person.

If you want to give full life rights to a 2 month old fetus thats going to require a lot more than just stopping abortions- you would need protections against the mother's actions. Having a miscarriage would be a crime (unless you could prove a medical reason), and drinking or smoking while pregnant would need an assault charge at least (I wouldnt mind this anyways)

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this is where i'm torn. it's ultimately a philosophical decision regarding where life begins, and the answer is what separates the issue from being one of women's rights from being one of human rights. either way it is a social issue that men can not simply be removed from the conversation, as even the most fully-extended women's rights should in no way exclude a holistic dialogue to hash out a conclusion.

I'm not entirely sure that "I'm a guy therefore I have no say" isn't just a cop-out (tempting on so explosive an issue.)

but as with most things I'm still filtering information and attempting to determine where I stand, so I'm open to data and arguments that expose my reasoning as faulty

Im not particularly copping out, as much as I have strong feelings on telling people what they can and can not do with their own bodies.

But like you I am torn.

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Laws are written every day telling people what they can and can not do with their own bodies...some for a helluva lot less importance than another developing human life.

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I cant pretend that I like the idea of legal abortions, but its much preferable to the alternative. Making abortions illegal doesnt stop them from happening.

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I cant pretend that I like the idea of legal abortions, but its much preferable to the alternative. Making abortions illegal doesnt stop them from happening.

Then it goes back to what I said...

Where to choose to draw the line between the developing human life and the wants of the host mother.

Pick anything you want to help formulate your response. Be it biology, medical science/technology, philosophy, societal, etc.

Then determine how you'd treat someone that broke the law you'd write.

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Again, I think it will take a lot more study into the science of what consciousness is and when that begins. And I think in doing that, we are going to find out some things we’d rather not know. I mean if we find that an 8 month old fetus and a tasty cow has as much consciousness and recognition of pain as a newborn, then what are you going to do?

Current laws regarding fetuses outside abortion are hazy as well. Many states punish mothers of crack babies severely, but let off mothers of children with equally devastating Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (which is a much larger problem) with little to no punishment whatsoever (I’ll let you guess the reasons).

Also the law is never cut and dry on human life even when it’s established. Hunting down and killing another human being can be either murder or cause for national celebration depending on the circumstances.

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let's take a step back for a minute.

does consciousness define intelligent life?

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I dislike abortion . But I can't force my views on someone else. What you decide to do with your own body is your right. Why do conservatives want to involved government into our private lives by having the right to choose what you do with your own body? And for the first time in history the polls have put them in minority on this issue.

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