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Post in this thread if you want to read and contribute to a thoughtful (if exhaustive) treatise on race and leadership in football

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[quote name='SCP' timestamp='1359730772' post='2120794']
I always tip 20% and go up from there. My wife hates it.
[/quote]

Well maybe if you gave the wife more than 20% of the tip.
Just sayin'.
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Nice, thoughtful post and data. Kudos!

Unfortunately, some people just hate and dislike Cam for what ever reason (including some of yours), and it's not that very complicated. Sometimes it's a little more personal and under the skin. He's threatening to many, and turns their prior belief system upside down, so they need to reinforce their long held belief for themselves.

Take Colin Kaepernick for example. He's not a great communicator; looks a whole lot less refined than Cam, is even more combustible and excitable on field than Cam, inarticulate, not a winner like Cam, and wasn't good enough to start over former career bust like Alex Smith. But you really hear him criticized or take such personal criticism about his looks, antics or background, as Cam has, now that's he's in the spotlight. Why?

I think it could be more the "MANDINGO Effect (speaking Sociology)". Cam is just too Stud-ly it appears. LOL.

Newton is 6'6", 262lbs, and as the esteemed Dave Letterman said when Cam was a guest on his show in 2010 after winning the Heisman: "Wow! Look at that guy!", when Cam came on stage. Letterman continued, stating...."If I looked like that guy, you could all kiss my ass!!" Yes he did say that. LOL. AndI think that's how many of Cam's critics, thinks he feels. Letterman also said "What a horse" when he read Cam's measurements of 6'6", 250lbs (at the time), before his appearance.

And that could be it in a nutshell right there. Most "running quarterbacks", are supposed to be Mike Vick or RG3 sized. But Cam is big, tall, strong, fast, shifty athletically, has a great arm, along with being charismatic and good looking. Nice combination, huh? You just can't dismiss him, as "another running small, fast black/running QB". Cam had pocket talent, presences, athleticism and size, the envy of practically all Quarterback, black and white. And of course Cam's bad boy image, from the alleged, but unfounded accusations concerning his father, made him accumulate unprecedented haters, as to what was wrong with College Football. And Cam just continued to play on, ignored the media and excelled.

Now you combine everything mentioned, while Cam won a JUCO championship, at BSC Championship, a Heisman, and Rookie of the year in the NFL, and was much better than many of his critics gave him credit for, while still not kissing anyone ass, acting like he belongs, with only 1 years BSC experience. Cam didn't cow tow to the media and appear or interview on their schedule. He did/does his thing. And only talks to them when he's ready, like any secure long time star would (or a smart, hardworking football player, that wants to focus on their craft). Its' all those things, that make many in the media Hate or negatively rate Cam with out really ever watching him play. There's something about him, that just gets under certain insecure/conceited individuals (like Bill Polian and Peter Kings's) skin. Cam is threatening to them.

And I don't think Cam speaks poorly. I think it's Cam's southern drawl/twang and youthful, hip expression (along with how fast he speaks). But he certainly doesn't sound street or like a thug. Not at all. You can tell he was raised from a good, strong family (which he was). Now you have white guys from the south, that sound the same way. But would we call them stupid sounding, urban or inarticulate?Of course not. Robert Griffin is not a threat. He's small and ugly. And though he's arrogant himself, they over look it, cause he can be marketed as the Anti-Cam [black], simply cause they want to. Russell Wilson (who they weren't paying much attention to initially), is small, articulate/no twang, and was a refreshing story (3d rd pick, turned into starter) of the "Aw Shucks" variety this year. But neither (including Kaepernick), are KING MANDINGO types like Cam, who so many find so threatening. That's the problem!

Newton is certainly not dumb nor sounds dumb. Far from it. And just cause he's doesn't come off as polished (which he's not), it doesn't mean what he has to say doesn't make sense. I've heard much worse from athletes. He's certainly not Allen Iverson, or a young Randy Moss for example. Far from it. Most times, Cam says the right things, accepts blame, compliments his teammates and coaches, promises to work harder and smiles. That should be more than enough one would think? You notice, most of us aren't even aware or care how Colin Kaepernick sounds/speaks (though to me he sounds practically uneducated, breathless and always hyper)? That's how silly this has become.

Nonetheless, no one really cares (how Kaepernick speaks), and shouldn't It should be the same with Cam? Hmmmh. I wonder why? :phew:

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[quote name='Kevin Greene' timestamp='1359732041' post='2120814']


Well maybe if you gave the wife more than 20% of the tip.
Just sayin'.
[/quote]

If I give her more than 20% of the tip my balls are in her ass. :-(

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[quote name='Hawk' timestamp='1359732020' post='2120813']I guess my question, which won't be well liked by some, is that...I am wondering if there is a chance that certain races are just wired differently, that their minds are just programmed to do different things. Being a coach makes you think of things differently than being a fisherman or a nuclear physicist etc etc etc. damned if I know.[/quote]

no. actually a lot of founding sociologists and anthropologists originally assumed that there were differences in the makeup of brains based on race, but it quickly became apparent that all humans were the same biologically in terms of mental makeup (if not morphologically, due to environmental patterns.) any behavioral differentiations are due entirely to environment - varying combinations of ecological and social - and have nothing to do with biology.
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[quote name='nc_biscuit' timestamp='1359721509' post='2120725']
Is this that book you were talking about finishing Philly?
[/quote]

haha no. i still have a little ways to go on that... i'll be sure and spam the huddle with amazon.com links if i manage to hook a publisher

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I think all this crap about leadership bullpoo is just a majority populace and their relentless desire to impose their will on any minority population. Just a group of people, as sadistic as it may seem, that 'enjoys' the status of majority. That's all it is. Thus they poke at any perceived minority whenever they have the leverage. That's all it is. Nothing more. As a sport fan, I think I understand Cam completely for the information I expect from him. Heck, Cam is a well spoken young and I understand him clearly when he speak. And no, I don't speak or understand ebonics(?).

When anybody of non-caucasian decent see a young man like Cam they just think of the good looking class clown in their high school. They ignore them, not chastise them. That, my friend, is where tolerance come from. The understanding of human behaviors base on prior experiences. But when you're 'enjoying' being majority I guess you tend to overlook that. Thus you start expecting 22 year olds to be great leader and orator. That, I think, in itself is quite childish. Mind you, we're talking about a sport where people are hitting the crap out of each other people senselessly. Thus, it's not the fault of Cam, it's the majority that's childish with their inability to understand basic human behaviors.

And yes, those so-called ebonics speakers can if they want speak just like caucasians. And of course, why would they!? People of African heritage have a background in speaking 7 dialects. English is NOT that complicated. You notice how many black comedians like Martin, Shappelle, Murphy would sometimes do their caucasian accent as part of their act.

It boils down to, how would you feel like if someone is always pointing their dirty, filthy fingers at you?
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I think lots of people share your opinion BlueBoy...I just can't see the entire NFL sharing it...especially when winning is so important...breaking the mold would be worth it.

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thanks for the clarification Philly.

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[quote name='Hawk' timestamp='1359732020' post='2120813']
jesus Philly...if I was in your bar I would have been helping myself to the top shelf waiting for you to type all that out man!! Good post though...and ya...I want to be involved in a conversation that doesn't jump automatically to being accused of being racist.

I live in Canada. Compared to most US places, we don't really have very many black people in these parts. Lots of Asians, Indians..both kinds, lots of people from all over the world to be honest as that's what Canada is all about...not aboot, about! I don't consider myself a racist even in the slightest bit. Just wanted to get that out of the way first.

We all joke about Asians being the great mathmeticians of the world. Maybe it's in their DNA or their education...damned if I know. What's my point...I wasn't sure if I had to have one....no, I remember years ago a sportscaster getting in major crap because he said blacks were dominating in the running events at the Olympics I think it was because as he put it, their muscles were developed differently and they had a different muscle in their leg that made them run faster. Do I believe this...no, probably not, but it could be I suppose.

I guess my question, which won't be well liked by some, is that...I am wondering if there is a chance that certain races are just wired differently, that their minds are just programmed to do different things. Being a coach makes you think of things differently than being a fisherman or a nuclear physicist etc etc etc. damned if I know.

tldr...I know...I'm going back to sleep
[/quote]


Personally, I believe we are all born a blank slate (the Tabula Rasa) and our life experience write our personality. I think of genetics as soft spots in that slate, spots we have a predisposition to falter or succeed. If you were to take the majority of athletes- Black, White, Asian, etc....and insert them into the Manning household growing up they would come out more articulate and well mannered. Put them in that house from the day they are born. I read an article once that said poor African American children hear 5 million fewer words spoken by the time they reach Kindergarten. That is our children learning communication skills right there. That isn't genetics, it's societal.

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[quote name='Hawk' timestamp='1359738231' post='2120881']
I think lots of people share your opinion BlueBoy...I just can't see the entire NFL sharing it...especially when winning is so important...breaking the mold would be worth it.
[/quote]
I don't think the NFL is culpable at all. In fact, the NFL is a very tolerant organization. The problem is with the journalists, to satiate the demand of the majority they tend stoop to such level of imbecility and intolerant childishness.

People assume the reason the quarterback positions were mostly white is because of their so-called intangibles. But in reality, as Kurt Warner stated, it's because the QB position is the least athletic position on the field. Athletic players in the past use look up to the Jerry Rices, Simpsons, Bo, Moss, etc. so they grew to think that QBs were too soft and nonathletic. Most people don't realize that QBs are just the coaches' messengers, more like teacher's pet. QB and leadership is just a persona.

Some people actually think those 10+ year vets with wives and kids and all their dignity to uphold are gonna listen to a rookie like Luck proclaiming he is their leader. Rrright! And remember, a QB and WR, RB, TE, etc all have the same status. The QB can't fire other players, so why would they take his crap. You think those vets need to be led to play football? Even the notion is funny. "Just call the goddamn play so you can look good at the press conference", that summarize all a QB is.

You think Steve Smith needs to be led to catch the damn ball? Heck, Terrell Owens ate QBs for lunch. Boy, the public is stupid!

Speaking of Luck, I think he is the least eloquent of all the young QBs and the least abilities and we'll see that in a couple more years.
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it will be liberating for most of you guys when you reach 40. the things you use to sweat will be so comical.

we all grow up or grow old. we all learn our lessons and the ones we don't, we stay in class until we do.

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[quote name='KendrickPanther' timestamp='1359740187' post='2120896']



Personally, I believe we are all born a blank slate (the Tabula Rasa) and our life experience write our personality. I think of genetics as soft spots in that slate, spots we have a predisposition to falter or succeed. If you were to take the majority of athletes- Black, White, Asian, etc....and insert them into the Manning household growing up they would come out more articulate and well mannered. Put them in that house from the day they are born. I read an article once that said poor African American children hear 5 million fewer words spoken by the time they reach Kindergarten. That is our children learning communication skills right there. That isn't genetics, it's societal.
[/quote]

I think you are very accurate on your statements.

There are genetic differences in us all. Some have a predisposition to be a better athlete and I Di believe that done are predisposed to be leaders. However, I also agree that the majority if the reason is societal. Your experiences build who you are likely to become.

There are always exceptions to these rules, but they are exactly that....exceptions and not the rule.

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