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Alternate Solutions to the Crowded Backfield


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#16 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

I think people need to move on from the Fox era.....and Double Trouble represents all that is the Fox way of life.

What production from Williams are you arguing can't be ignored? What he did years ago? He hasn't done much under Ron Rivera. Sure, he can still pop one if given a nice fat hole but he doesn't fit what they want to do (which is why Ron essentially benched him both seasons in favor of a different style as the main RB).

Cam, Tolbert, and Stewart.....just with those 3. There aren't enough carries for Stewart to earn his paycheck running an offense that maximizes all Newton has to offer.

You want Double Trouble?! You want a QB like Jimmy Clausen then.....then there would be carries to justify their contract.


Threaten us with teh jimmya why don't ya. If your arguement is weak, throw in teh jimmya.

You sure go to great lengths to downplay DWill. DWill is a homerun threat. Stew is not. Does not matter how they get popped. DWill is still more likely to pop one than Stew. They both run behind the same line. They both have the same opportunity to pop one. Stew is good at what he does, but he ain't gonna scare anyone with his popability. And believe it or not. Popability is important.

So you are saying that the only way to maximize Cam is him carrying the ball 15-20+ times a game?
Oh, okay. Because, imo, that is the only way you can negate the need for quality RBs. And personally, I think that it is also slightly shortsighted. Because it's hard enough to keep your QB healthy without running him unnecessarily.

If you are going to run Cam that much you don't need either DWill or Stew. Which I guess may affect the cap. But then again, you believe we can just plug in any RB and be good to go. So the cap isn't an issue for that RB corp. Just don't expect as much production.

Cam's running ability is a proven comodity. The threat is already there. You don't have to continue to run him to scare people. They are already scared. You do however need to be able to run the ball with someone other than Cam. DWill is the scarier RB, and I like that thought. You like Stew and his 4 yards of dust.

To keep Cam a threat, you need RBs who are a threat. No name RBs may not be enough of a threat to support Cam. If the D is not worried about your RB, they can key on Cam. You might as well call Freddie, cuz that is a nightmare.

So I say. Cut Stew and renegotiate DWill. If we are going to lose one or the other, I would prefer it be Stew.

tl/dr version.
I am damm sure positive that over the course of their careers. DWill has a poo ton more "Explosive Plays" than Stew. And isn't that what we all have been pining for this offseason? Playmakers? I say, don't lose out, without at least a struggle, on one of the prescious few you do happen to have.

#17 bleys

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 05:21 PM

tl/dr version.
I am damm sure positive that over the course of their careers. DWill has a poo ton more "Explosive Plays" than Stew. And isn't that what we all have been pining for this offseason? Playmakers? I say, don't lose out, without at least a struggle, on one of the prescious few you do happen to have.


DWill had 5 runs for 20+ yards this year.. less than 0.3 times a game was he a home run threat. Stewart was the most elusive back in the NFL in 2011 with almost 40 catches added in the receiving game. There is just something wrong to me about saying DWill is such a better weapon in this offense..

#18 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:00 PM

Stew only had 93 rushes last year. Not sure you can be the most elusive when you are not on the field. And he only had 17 receptions. So his production was not off the charts, hell it was barely on the charts.

DWill had two screens that went for more than 60 yards. He can take any snap to the house.

And I said for thier careers. DWill blows Stews doors off when it comes to explosive plays. In the last 3 years Stew has had one run over 30 yards. Not much of a homerun threat there.

#19 bleys

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:26 PM

Stew only had 93 rushes last year. Not sure you can be the most elusive when you are not on the field. And he only had 17 receptions. So his production was not off the charts, hell it was barely on the charts.

DWill had two screens that went for more than 60 yards. He can take any snap to the house.

And I said for thier careers. DWill blows Stews doors off when it comes to explosive plays. In the last 3 years Stew has had one run over 30 yards. Not much of a homerun threat there.


First of all, we aren't comparing when a player isn't on the field. Stew has missed less games in the same amount of time. I don't fear Stewart's ability to come back and take 60-65% of the snaps with either DWill or Tolbert.. If anyone does, so be it. You really can't say much about the future at this point based on a high ankle sprain. So have it, next year is a new year.

2 screens for 60 yards, cool. that doesn't really address the point I made.

Having both players healthy, something seems wrong to me trying to downplay Stew's effectiveness by a few screens and a few extra "home runs" throughout a 16 game season. All while acknowledging how effective Stewart is on the field..

If you like home runs, that's your preference. But as far as ability, I trust Stewart just as much and probably more in certain situations. I like DWill, but I won't be mad with whoever leaves first.

Anyone invested heavily in which player is really that much better needs to relax. In 2-3 years it won't fuging matter. ;)

#20 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

Threaten us with teh jimmya why don't ya. If your arguement is weak, throw in teh jimmya.

You sure go to great lengths to downplay DWill. DWill is a homerun threat. Stew is not. Does not matter how they get popped. DWill is still more likely to pop one than Stew. They both run behind the same line. They both have the same opportunity to pop one. Stew is good at what he does, but he ain't gonna scare anyone with his popability. And believe it or not. Popability is important.

So you are saying that the only way to maximize Cam is him carrying the ball 15-20+ times a game?
Oh, okay. Because, imo, that is the only way you can negate the need for quality RBs. And personally, I think that it is also slightly shortsighted. Because it's hard enough to keep your QB healthy without running him unnecessarily.

If you are going to run Cam that much you don't need either DWill or Stew. Which I guess may affect the cap. But then again, you believe we can just plug in any RB and be good to go. So the cap isn't an issue for that RB corp. Just don't expect as much production.

Cam's running ability is a proven comodity. The threat is already there. You don't have to continue to run him to scare people. They are already scared. You do however need to be able to run the ball with someone other than Cam. DWill is the scarier RB, and I like that thought. You like Stew and his 4 yards of dust.

To keep Cam a threat, you need RBs who are a threat. No name RBs may not be enough of a threat to support Cam. If the D is not worried about your RB, they can key on Cam. You might as well call Freddie, cuz that is a nightmare.

So I say. Cut Stew and renegotiate DWill. If we are going to lose one or the other, I would prefer it be Stew.

tl/dr version.
I am damm sure positive that over the course of their careers. DWill has a poo ton more "Explosive Plays" than Stew. And isn't that what we all have been pining for this offseason? Playmakers? I say, don't lose out, without at least a struggle, on one of the prescious few you do happen to have.


Ugh...

No, if you maximize what Newton can do (runner AND as a passer)....there are not enough reps for Williams and Stewart and Tolbert to earn their checks.

Simple and plain.

Invest in the OL. Runners are easy to find and dirt cheap behind an OL.

#21 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:44 PM

First of all, we aren't comparing when a player isn't on the field. Stew has missed less games in the same amount of time. I don't fear Stewart's ability to come back and take 60-65% of the snaps with either DWill or Tolbert.. If anyone does, so be it. You really can't say much about the future at this point based on a high ankle sprain. So have it, next year is a new year.

2 screens for 60 yards, cool. that doesn't really address the point I made.

Having both players healthy, something seems wrong to me trying to downplay Stew's effectiveness by a few screens and a few extra "home runs" throughout a 16 game season. All while acknowledging how effective Stewart is on the field..

If you like home runs, that's your preference. But as far as ability, I trust Stewart just as much and probably more in certain situations. I like DWill, but I won't be mad with whoever leaves first.

Anyone invested heavily in which player is really that much better needs to relax. In 2-3 years it won't fuging matter. ;)


I reread it after you quoted me and it does sound preachy. I guess I am overreacting to the DWil hate/undervaluing going on.

I like Stewy. And if he is here next year and DWill is gone I will support him. He is better than average so I would expect that out of him. I just wish he were healthier. You know that half to full season of being a beast would be great.

However. With the way the NFL is going. You need playmakers and homerun threats. DWill is both, while I believe Stew is only one. Still a playmaker, just not a homerun threat.

However this works out I believe the powers that be are trying to field the best team possible. I would love to have both, would prefer DWill, but I would not turn down Stew either.

One last thought. If we do keep Stew and lose DWill. We will still probably have to invest in a scatback homerun threat anyway. Although it would be cheaper than keeping DWill, there are no assurances that he would be better. Unless that is what Adams is being groomed for. If he can hold onto the ball, that could be an option.

Too much excitement thinking about all these posibilities. Who to keep and how to keep them? Who can we bring in and can they be playmakers? Who to lose without handicapping ourselves? It bangles the mind.

#22 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:45 PM

Stew only had 93 rushes last year. Not sure you can be the most elusive when you are not on the field. And he only had 17 receptions. So his production was not off the charts, hell it was barely on the charts.

DWill had two screens that went for more than 60 yards. He can take any snap to the house.

And I said for thier careers. DWill blows Stews doors off when it comes to explosive plays. In the last 3 years Stew has had one run over 30 yards. Not much of a homerun threat there.


Past doesn't mean much.

Williams averaged 3.3 yards per carry this year....in 14 games this year. His 2 games against the worst D in NFL history gave him and huge bump. He wasn't good this year. Stewart is better when healthy for Cam and behind a poor OL in general.

#23 rayzor

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 06:46 PM

The issue is really how much dead cap space do we want to accumulate for 2014 when we will be worse off under the cap then we are this year. We could realistically end up with 15 million of the 2014 cap space going to pay for salaries for guys who are long gone.

i hate this, but it's a very real possibility and it should be avoided as much as possible.

#24 pantherclaw

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

I love how over confident our fanbase has gotten when it comes to having a good backfield.

Yeah, lets make cam do it all.

#25 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

Past doesn't mean much.

Williams averaged 3.3 yards per carry this year....in 14 games this year. His 2 games against the worst D in NFL history gave him and huge bump. He wasn't good this year. Stewart is better when healthy for Cam and behind a poor OL in general.


According to Panthers own site. DWill averaged 4.3 while Stew averaged 3.6. That is almost a yard more. Please quit trying to downplay DWill's ability.

4.3 is damm near average in the NFL. If that is his worst year, I will take it. Even with Chud screwing up, and the O-line in flux, DWill still got average numbers while Stew's were well below that mark.

The only thing a no name RB has over DWill is salary. If that part can be worked out. We won't need your no name RB.

If RBs really were a dime a dozen everyone would have one or even two. So why are so many teams looking for RBs? Because truly good runninbacks are gold. Teams throw everything the have into finding gems, because you never know where the next one will come from. But as a rule, if you don't draft one high enough, you are just throwing darts at the wall.

Because they are in position to take the most abuse, by ontinually be hit, tackled, and be used as a cushion. Hence, much shorter careers. They tend to, by nature of the postition, get more money. So if they get lucky and last, they can be a burden on you cash. We are at that awkward stage with not one, but two RBs.

Ask yourself this question. If we can only have one RB which one would it be? The one who is the better natural runner, shiftier and quicker, and can take a screen to the house. Or the one who is more physical and can never seem to be 100%, who can get you positive yards and occasionally break one off, and is steady and strong in the screen game.

They way the game is played now. I would take the explosive player. And that is DWill. Renegotiate his deal. And if we can afford him, keep him.

Stewy is still a beast, but in this day and age I want playmakers/homerun threats carrying and catching the ball.

#26 bleys

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:43 PM

I love how over confident our fanbase has gotten when it comes to having a good backfield.

Yeah, lets make cam do it all.


believe it or not, teams do more with less. if we can't find good RBs later in the draft and must resort to paying 45mil to RBs, we don't deserve to win games.

#27 Davis83

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:45 PM

You just never know - Dwill may have his agent talking right now about renegotiating in a way that helps our cap and keeps him in Charlotte. Cam has had an effect on players - some guys just want to be here and are willing to work with the staff to find a way that they can stay.

Who knows, Dwill might be one of those guys that will do what he needs to in order to stay.

#28 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

According to Panthers own site. DWill averaged 4.3 while Stew averaged 3.6. That is almost a yard more. Please quit trying to downplay DWill's ability.

4.3 is damm near average in the NFL. If that is his worst year, I will take it. Even with Chud screwing up, and the O-line in flux, DWill still got average numbers while Stew's were well below that mark.

The only thing a no name RB has over DWill is salary. If that part can be worked out. We won't need your no name RB.

If RBs really were a dime a dozen everyone would have one or even two. So why are so many teams looking for RBs? Because truly good runninbacks are gold. Teams throw everything the have into finding gems, because you never know where the next one will come from. But as a rule, if you don't draft one high enough, you are just throwing darts at the wall.

Because they are in position to take the most abuse, by ontinually be hit, tackled, and be used as a cushion. Hence, much shorter careers. They tend to, by nature of the postition, get more money. So if they get lucky and last, they can be a burden on you cash. We are at that awkward stage with not one, but two RBs.

Ask yourself this question. If we can only have one RB which one would it be? The one who is the better natural runner, shiftier and quicker, and can take a screen to the house. Or the one who is more physical and can never seem to be 100%, who can get you positive yards and occasionally break one off, and is steady and strong in the screen game.

They way the game is played now. I would take the explosive player. And that is DWill. Renegotiate his deal. And if we can afford him, keep him.

Stewy is still a beast, but in this day and age I want playmakers/homerun threats carrying and catching the ball.


I will repeat it....in the 14 games against teams that weren't the worst defensive unit in NFL history.....his ypc was 3.3.

The NO games greatly masked how unimpressive he was this year. Those 2 games also caused his ypc to jump a full yard....and most of his TDs as well.


And to answer your question....if I am going to pay money....give me the young RB who fits what the coach ideally wants. That ain't Williams.

#29 iamhubby1

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:03 PM

You just never know - Dwill may have his agent talking right now about renegotiating in a way that helps our cap and keeps him in Charlotte. Cam has had an effect on players - some guys just want to be here and are willing to work with the staff to find a way that they can stay.

Who knows, Dwill might be one of those guys that will do what he needs to in order to stay.


This is one of the things that has me excited about this offseason. Who can we keep, and how can we keep them? Who is willing to work with us to make this a better team? I really hope DWill is one of those guys. He has gottent he majority of his money. Maybe he is willing to renegotiate so he can remain a Panther?

I sure hope so. That would be just peachy.

#30 Pimpdaddy

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

a lot of money to pay a scat back you simply try to get in open space...

....I guess my point is why cant anyone figure out how to get these backs to produce at thier max potential? I dont think Shula will figure it out but if he does we'll win next year....


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