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Drafting a Guard in the first round


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#61 SCP

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:48 AM

Could Cooper move to T? He looks athletic enough. Moves really well for a giant man


He's only 6'2".

#62 Growl

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:21 AM

Guards aren't difference makers, regardless of how talented you might think they are. That's what some of you aren't getting. The impact disparity between a "good" guard and an "elite" guard is minimal, at best.

#63 Growl

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:22 AM

People keep saying "but Gettleman said he likes the big men!!!" but continue to neglect to mention that he was listing them 4th on his priority list when he said that




#64 SCP

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:27 AM

Guards aren't difference makers, regardless of how talented you might think they are. That's what some of you aren't getting. The impact disparity between a "good" guard and an "elite" guard is minimal, at best.


This as a blanket statement is bull poo. If you run an offense that relies on your guards getting out around the end or up to the second level, you better believe they are impact players. You want Deangelo, Stew, and Cam to break off long runs? You better have a guard that can put is hat on a backer or safety downfield. Kalil is great at this. Silatolu is going to be very good at it. Those blocks are the difference in a 5 yard gain or a 25 yard gain. That's not an impact?

#65 Salvo

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:29 AM

Amini may be from a D2 school, but he's far from a scrub and such a comment shows you either didn't watch him much, or didn't know what you were watching.


Please...

I'm in no ways trying to be negative about him so "scrub" might have been the wrong word. He was a raw piece of clay that was placed in a difficult situation. He struggled...but he improved immensely over the course of the year which bodes well for the future and is why I do not think LG is an issue.

However, he still has a lot to learn...

#66 Navy_football

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:37 AM

Amini is far from a scrub. I don't think his playing at a D2 school was as big an issue as the fact that he's changed positions. Physically, he can handle NFL DL and LBs. His mistakes come from being out schemed and missing assignments. Once he learns how to play OG, he'll be a pro bowler or an all pro.

Actually, I'd love to see him take a few snaps at LT during preseason. Great feet, size and strength at the point of attack. He's a little too aggressive at times though, and that could get him in trouble with the more elusive pass rushers.

#67 Growl

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

This as a blanket statement is bull poo. If you run an offense that relies on your guards getting out around the end or up to the second level, you better believe they are impact players. You want Deangelo, Stew, and Cam to break off long runs? You better have a guard that can put is hat on a backer or safety downfield. Kalil is great at this. Silatolu is going to be very good at it. Those blocks are the difference in a 5 yard gain or a 25 yard gain. That's not an impact?


Except this isn't the kind of offense we want to run.

Not to mention that youre making a "blanket statement" as you put it as well. The difference between a 5 yard run and a 25 yard run is never a single player.

Do I even need to mention that a "good" Guard giving you a good block is going to look exactly the same an "elite" one doing so?

You could argue that an "elite" one would do it more frequently, except, that's just the point. The amount he does it "more" isnt anywhere close to being enough to justify taking the Guard over other important positions.

#68 rayzor

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:51 AM

New Orleans values the G position. Keeping the pocket a pocket is very important. Having a guard that can get to the next level is very important. If we add a Cooper or Warmack, all the sudden we've got two guards and a center than can make blocks and get out to that second level in a hurry. That's how big runs are created. To me that says "impact player".

what rounds did they draft evans and nicks?

when they threw a ton of money at ben grubbs...you've got to wonder where else they could ohave spent it that would have helped them suck less on defense. i just don't see the benefit of committing that much money to that position with limited cap space and positions that could be benefiting you more.

#69 catnip

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:53 AM

Gettleman said he would take BPA or trade down with the first pick. I think drafting an OT makes the most sense if one falls to us.
Gross has lost a little and his contract is up in 2014. We could move him to the right side and most of our line problems would be solved this year with one pick. The rest of our draft could be DT,WR,CB,S, and K. We are still one year away from making big noise but good enough to make the playoffs. This would make the fans happy !

#70 rayzor

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:59 AM

People keep saying "but Gettleman said he likes the big men!!!" but continue to neglect to mention that he was listing them 4th on his priority list when he said that

exactly.

QB, pass rushers, and TD scorers were all ahead of "big guys". you've got to believe that those are the priorities ahead of big guys.

we are set at QB and pretty good at pass rushers. we are lacking in the TD scorers dept. that will be the focus if you're gonna put stock in the comments he made and what the giants have done.

#71 SCP

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

Except this isn't the kind of offense we want to run.

Not to mention that youre making a "blanket statement" as you put it as well. The difference between a 5 yard run and a 25 yard run is never a single player.

Do I even need to mention that a "good" Guard giving you a good block is going to look exactly the same an "elite" one doing so?

You could argue that an "elite" one would do it more frequently, except, that's just the point. The amount he does it "more" isnt anywhere close to being enough to justify taking the Guard over other important positions.


Nobody knows what kind of offense Shula is going to run. What i consider to be an elite guard is going to get to the second level more often than your average guy. Just making one block is what an average guard will do. Based on the pre-draft conjecture, Warmack and Cooper are going to offer more than just the initial point of attack block. If you have 2 guards and a center that can offer that every other play, no matter the offense you're running, that is a great thing.

#72 SCP

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:42 AM

My philosophy of building an offense is:

Priority 1: QB
Priority 2: strong smart center, strong mobile guards, and probowl caliber LT
Priority 3: pass catching TE
Priority 4: elite WR1 and good possession guy at WR2
Priority 5: RB
Priority 6: RT

#73 Squirrel

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:47 AM

After 1 your order is messed up IMO

2 should be A good center and LT
3. Good Wr
4. Good RB
5. Good guards
6. Goodn TE

#74 MHS831

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:49 AM

I agree too. However, the first round this year really sucks compared to previous years. Maybe I am wrong here, but i look at it this way:

If I can draft a top CB, DE, LOT, or QB in the first, then that is five years I am not having to pay a player on a second contract at that position. Some DEs make $15 million, for example. No Guards do. A solid G runs you about $5-7 million on a second contract.

We can have 2 starting veteran guards for the same price one DE is paid.

So basically, I am suggesting that you have one DE, DT,and CB on a rookie contract at all times. If not, you run the risk of having 20% of your salary cap at one position that is NOT QB.

Next year, we could be sitting at the negotiating table with Greg Hardy's agent, who will be throwing Charles Johnson's contract at Gettlemen. If he comes close to getting CJ $$, we are talking about $22 million for defensive ends.

By playing one DE on a rookie deal at all times, your DE expense is about $8 million cheaper. hypothetically, the DE plays out the 5 year rookie contract while his counterpart enters a 5-year second contract. The savings, $8 million or so, is enough to pay for 2 veteran guards on second contracts.

I realize that it is not that easy, but the concept is solid.

Do the same thing at CB. One second contract, one rookie deal. When the CB hits 30, re-sign your player on a rookie contract to a second contract and draft a rookie.

Do the same thing at DT.

Do the same thing at WR. Essentially--and extremely hypothetically--you draft one of these key positions most years. Marty did not do this--he neglected CB, WR, DT, and even QB. Instead, he drafted safe, easy-to-find positions like RB (2), OL, LB most recently.

So, essentially, your first rounders are loosely restricted to a few, expensive positions, unless a player is overwhelmingly better than the rest.

Chance Warmack could be that exception. However, I KNOW some starting-quality rookie Guards will drop to the fourth round.

#75 SCP

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

After 1 your order is messed up IMO

2 should be A good center and LT
3. Good Wr
4. Good RB
5. Good guards
6. Goodn TE


Perhaps you weren't aware that my 6-8 year old flag football team was undefeated this past season. That puts me head and shoulders above Jeff Davidson.


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