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Sen. Elizabeth Warren Makes Case for $22-an-hour Minimum Wage.


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#46 Brokenbad

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:44 PM

You just can't pay unskilled labor like skilled labor, it just won't work.


Say a person has worked his way up to $22 an hour at their job, and the new guy starts getting $22 an hour the next day, does the first persons pay go up?

If not, and both pays stay $22 an hour, that's really close to communism, no?

#47 Kurb

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

The one thing that can be inferred from most if the posts in this thread.....

Either most of you did not take Wconomics or you failed it.

Supply and Demand dictates wages. Gov't intervention only makes it worse.


Never took, just sharing opinion

#48 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 07:58 PM

It's wage warfare....

My question is how come wages have not increased at a time of record profits and record salaries at the top?


no one is actually going to address this

#49 Kurb

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:21 PM

It's wage warfare....

My question is how come wages have not increased at a time of record profits and record salaries at the top?



Because CEO's are shitheads ?

#50 pstall

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 08:48 PM

here is the article i was referring too.

http://www.slate.com...he_economy.html


To raise real wages across the economy rather than for some favored group of insiders, what you need to do is make things cheaper. And that generally entails an accumulated series of events that make selected groups of people's nominal incomes lower.

#51 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:46 PM

Because CEO's are shitheads ?


but you're ok with that because ~*~the infallible market~*~

#52 Jase

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:20 PM

Because CEO's are shitheads ?


Because the government, federal reserve and basic age distribution dumb luck has created a climate where it's advantageous and even necessary for CEOs be shitheads.

#53 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:30 PM

it's the government's fault that wages have failed to rise alongside productivity and corporate profits? did the mean ol' government force businesses to practice shareholder value maximization too? to leverage benefits and the threat of unemployment against employees in order to suppress wages?

unless you mean it's because the government has yet to intervene on behalf of those who aren't being fairly compensated for their work, i'm going to need you to show your work

#54 Jase

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:25 PM

well I mean when I say "create a climate that makes it advantageous" for our corporate overlords to do exactly what is the most profitable for them, that totes means that the government forced the poor widdle corporations to run laughing all the way to the bank.

First let's not forget that government's most recent implementation of a 'rising tide lifts all ships' policy (ironically such as the one posted in the OP) was to artificially store liquidity in the housing market to disastrous ends (and windfall profits to banks and wall street in general).

The ensuing recession has offered no shortage of opportunity for the corporation to rape the common man.

The job market is flooded with overqualified geriatric workers wiling to work for a fraction of their worth. Thanks to near zero interest rates, they'll take any money they can get for their highly developed skills. And they do. Meanwhile, younger workers in the heart of what would be the skill-developing portion of their careers are missing out and will never be as competitive as their older peers.

Meanwhile the government is enslaving the young working class all the while making it harder for them to break free of their chains.

This in turn has caused a baby bust that is further narrowing the middle class and decreasing working class opportunities.

I'm sure I missed a few other hundred ways that the government is oppressing the young and working class.

But hey, it's probably just those greedy old CEOs that are just stealing from us, because they're evil and shit and there's no larger forces at work here.

Let's just agree that the federal government is largely comprised of rich people that are interested In getting richer to varying degrees, while still maintaining just enough public goodwill to get re-elected.

#55 Delhommey

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:44 PM

Raise the wage of a cashier to $22/HR and he/she will be replaced by a touch screen terminal by the end of the week.

#56 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:05 AM

well I mean when I say "create a climate that makes it advantageous" for our corporate overlords to do exactly what is the most profitable for them, that totes means that the government forced the poor widdle corporations to run laughing all the way to the bank.

First let's not forget that government's most recent implementation of a 'rising tide lifts all ships' policy (ironically such as the one posted in the OP) was to artificially store liquidity in the housing market to disastrous ends (and windfall profits to banks and wall street in general).

The ensuing recession has offered no shortage of opportunity for the corporation to rape the common man.

The job market is flooded with overqualified geriatric workers wiling to work for a fraction of their worth. Thanks to near zero interest rates, they'll take any money they can get for their highly developed skills. And they do. Meanwhile, younger workers in the heart of what would be the skill-developing portion of their careers are missing out and will never be as competitive as their older peers.

Meanwhile the government is enslaving the young working class all the while making it harder for them to break free of their chains.

This in turn has caused a baby bust that is further narrowing the middle class and decreasing working class opportunities.

I'm sure I missed a few other hundred ways that the government is oppressing the young and working class.

But hey, it's probably just those greedy old CEOs that are just stealing from us, because they're evil and shit and there's no larger forces at work here.

Let's just agree that the federal government is largely comprised of rich people that are interested In getting richer to varying degrees, while still maintaining just enough public goodwill to get re-elected.



i don't see the relationship between a higher minimum wage and the housing bubble

or the direct responsibility of government itself WRT the housing crisis. i understand that the recession was driven by government deregulation and rampant speculation thanks to libertarian darling and all around moron alan greenspan but he didn't literally force the banks to gamble on their own "time bomb mortgages". am i misreading your intent or are you arguing in favor of increased regulation? if so, ignore what i just said because i agree

i am not willing to write off the bullshit "management" perpetuated by the corporate elites as solely being some sort of government-facilitated market failure. corporations have been doing extremely dumb poo for quite a while now (see: earlier reference to shareholder value maximization) and, say, the elimination of student loan debt isn't really going to change that (short of shifting to a universal education type deal). CEOs aren't all evil; some of them are just incredibly dumb. but fug that doesn't matter golden parachutes for everyone, which leads me to what i believe to be the implication of panthro's question: the wealth doesn't actually trickle down, and people aren't actually paid what they're worth, so market intervention is necessary. if you're a tremendous fug up working an entry level job, you're fuged. if you're a tremendous fug up heading a bank, you're going to be given millions on your way out the door (if you even lose your job). that's not the government's fault unless, again, you're faulting the government for its failure to intervene.

#57 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 01:15 AM

Raise the wage of a cashier to $22/HR and he/she will be replaced by a touch screen terminal by the end of the week.


there's an interesting argument that as workers are replaced by machines and productivity continues to rise that society would be best served to shift away from the idea that nearly everyone must work a 40 hour work week to not be dirt poor; that if society shares productivity gains achieved by automated processes, people can attain a higher quality of life while working less and less (and paying more attention to market social benefit curves rather than econ 101 supply and demand stuff). the trade-off here is that 1% types would have to settle for being really, really rich instead of really, really, really rich.

naturally here and now replacing a cashier with a machine is a bad thing for everyone but the store's owner, but there exists the possibility that it may some day be considered beneficial for all involved.

#58 Delhommey

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 04:46 AM

I believe one of the reasons we went with moving manufacturing to cheaper labor overseas rather than automating it, was because Wall St was scared out of their wits by the possibilty of a post scarcity economy.

Should we continue without major disruption on the path we're on (probability: who the hell knows), the idea of a basic guaranteed wage for all citizens becomes more and more of the proper option. Of course then immigration limits would become a major issue, depending on what level you set the wage.

#59 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 06:50 AM

I cannot wait to have a job like "Thunderdome maintenence tech" in 2015!! Yay

#60 Kurb

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 07:29 AM

Because the government, federal reserve and basic age distribution dumb luck has created a climate where it's advantageous and even necessary for CEOs be shitheads.

well I mean when I say "create a climate that makes it advantageous" for our corporate overlords to do exactly what is the most profitable for them, that totes means that the government forced the poor widdle corporations to run laughing all the way to the bank.

First let's not forget that government's most recent implementation of a 'rising tide lifts all ships' policy (ironically such as the one posted in the OP) was to artificially store liquidity in the housing market to disastrous ends (and windfall profits to banks and wall street in general).

The ensuing recession has offered no shortage of opportunity for the corporation to rape the common man.

The job market is flooded with overqualified geriatric workers wiling to work for a fraction of their worth. Thanks to near zero interest rates, they'll take any money they can get for their highly developed skills. And they do. Meanwhile, younger workers in the heart of what would be the skill-developing portion of their careers are missing out and will never be as competitive as their older peers.

Meanwhile the government is enslaving the young working class all the while making it harder for them to break free of their chains.

This in turn has caused a baby bust that is further narrowing the middle class and decreasing working class opportunities.

I'm sure I missed a few other hundred ways that the government is oppressing the young and working class.

But hey, it's probably just those greedy old CEOs that are just stealing from us, because they're evil and shit and there's no larger forces at work here.

Let's just agree that the federal government is largely comprised of rich people that are interested In getting richer to varying degrees, while still maintaining just enough public goodwill to get re-elected.


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