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Ron Rivera reportedly says the Panthers are "open to trading D. Will"


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#121 ThunderKatt

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

It's not D-Will's fault the coach doesn't know what the hell he is doing. After Stew went down D-Will came back in and Rivera noticed the uptick and every since he has acted like he knew D could do it and now is on the bandwagon. RR blows with the wind. I hate his decision making, he has been crappy in the past and hopefully this year he will redeem himself. That's not an idea that I am happy about.

:thumbsd:

4.7 or 5.7 is still a large cap hit....for a 30 or 31 yr old RB that hasn't produced much over the last 3 years.

You really think it is fair to call a 30 yr old RB who last ran for a 1000 yards 4 years ago......NOW a featured RB? I don't.

There are cheaper options if you need a roleplayer....and that could be more of a long term fix



#122 CRA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:57 AM

He's never been a featured back. None of our RB's since Stephen fuging Davis have been a featured back. That's my point. If someone wants to use him as a primary use back, with his skill set and ability, he has all the potential in the world to be worth that money.


Not at 30....to big of gamble to up his workload to be a real featured RB at this stage.

He is a roleplayer. That is everyone's problem.

#123 CRA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 11:07 AM

It's not D-Will's fault the coach doesn't know what the hell he is doing. After Stew went down D-Will came back in and Rivera noticed the uptick and every since he has acted like he knew D could do it and now is on the bandwagon. RR blows with the wind. I hate his decision making, he has been crappy in the past and hopefully this year he will redeem himself. That's not an idea that I am happy about.

:thumbsd:


Not blaming Williams. Hurney.

Saints game still clouds judgement....15 games into the season he average a measly 3.3 yards per carry.

Rivera knows Williams is a roleplayer in his offense....which is why Stewart is the preferred RB and Tolbert brought in

#124 panthers55

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:15 PM

Why are we talking about what Chud did with DWill or Stewart? He is gone. Shula says he is going to run more in a power running formula similar to what we did when Williams and Stewart got more carries. Does that mean we can't do without Williams?? Not all all. But to assume that we are going to run Cam as much as we did the last 2 years when Gettleman said specifically we won't or to assume we aren't going to increase the workload of the backs is ridiculous. it smacks more of what posters want to see not what we will actually do.

#125 CRA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 12:24 PM

Why are we talking about what Chud did with DWill or Stewart? He is gone. Shula says he is going to run more in a power running formula similar to what we did when Williams and Stewart got more carries. Does that mean we can't do without Williams?? Not all all. But to assume that we are going to run Cam as much as we did the last 2 years when Gettleman said specifically we won't or to assume we aren't going to increase the workload of the backs is ridiculous. it smacks more of what posters want to see not what we will actually do.


Really? B/c Rivera claims Shula is pretty much going to run what we had been running....which was one of the main reasons they could defend the hire.

Rivera wanted the power run last season....and per Rivera that means more Stewart (not Williams).

and for the last time, Gettlemen is NOT an OC. Cam will continue to run like he always has....had this debate last offseason. Gettlemen is nothing more than an old dinosaur who talked about what he had always believed. Read option is staying, Cam freestyle running is staying...

Cam isn't the passer yet to take his legs out....Chud said that was a 7-8 yr goal. Chud also said post Carolina....Cam gets hurt passing, not running.

Cam is running in 2013. Nothing supports him not....only if you want to put all your faith in an old GM talking about what he believed in. Too bad he stepped into a team w/ a coach/QB already in place we are going to do what is best for Cam and the O.

Just like last offseason, you are suggesting an offense more geared to the Fox (pre Cam) era......nothing supports such.

#126 panthers55

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 01:45 PM

Really? B/c Rivera claims Shula is pretty much going to run what we had been running....which was one of the main reasons they could defend the hire.

Rivera wanted the power run last season....and per Rivera that means more Stewart (not Williams).

and for the last time, Gettlemen is NOT an OC. Cam will continue to run like he always has....had this debate last offseason. Gettlemen is nothing more than an old dinosaur who talked about what he had always believed. Read option is staying, Cam freestyle running is staying...

Cam isn't the passer yet to take his legs out....Chud said that was a 7-8 yr goal. Chud also said post Carolina....Cam gets hurt passing, not running.

Cam is running in 2013. Nothing supports him not....only if you want to put all your faith in an old GM talking about what he believed in. Too bad he stepped into a team w/ a coach/QB already in place we are going to do what is best for Cam and the O.

Just like last offseason, you are suggesting an offense more geared to the Fox (pre Cam) era......nothing supports such.


Seriously if you say it over and over, it doesn't make it true. Everyone knows you don't like Williams and want him gone. You may get your way finally. At least we won't have to listen to the constant whining for hundred of posts in thread after thread about Williams.

But as to your post. Gettleman has said over and over that Cam is going to be a pocket passer. He is not going to run that much except on busted plays. We are not going to use the read option very much at all. I know that you will just argue that we will over and over but here are some links that say you are wrong like usual.

http://www.usatoday....giants/1936543/

How many times did Manning run in New York?? 20 times for 35 yards last year. Lets assume Newton runs 3 times as much. That is 60 times in 16 games which doesn't make him part of the running game.

http://www.charlotte...eventually.html

Here is an article by Chud where he talks about the fact that even if he had stayed as coordinator he planned to wean Cam from a running quarterback to a passing quarterback. What you fall to realize it appears is that we ran Newton as much as we did more because that was Newton's abilty level coming in to the league and what he could do right away not what we want him to evolve into doing. Going forward there is a clear mandate to not use the read option as a staple of the offense. Are they going to say we won't use it?? Of course not, you never tell teams what you are going to do, you make them practice all of it and prepare for all contingencies. But reading the article you can notice that they are also looking at how many times that the quarterback is carrying the ball versus the running back. In other words we may use the read option but we will largely use the dive back or the back going wide to run the ball not the quarterback. So while we keep the read option in, the quarterback won't be getting the ball most of the time. Sometimes perhaps but not 1/2 of the time.


And no I am not looking at a Fox offense which is really a Davidson offense which used the Erhardt-Perkins system versus the Coryell vertical offense we currently use. But Shula will use more power running formation and a lot more play action passing rather than the primary read option. There was a clear reason we got rid of our old running back coach and brought in Jim Skipper who was our running back coach during the Fox years. That was because our running game is going to look a lot more like our power running game of the past.



Again no one is saying we won't use the read option at all, or that newton won't do a few quarterback sneaks or other designed plays but when we run the read option he won't be the primary option and he is going to be a primary pocket passer. That means he won't be a large part of our running game. With an increased emphasis on the run game we will either give a lot carries to Tolbert and Stewart or we will have to find another option.

I know you will keep arguing for the next 6 months about what we will do only to find out I was right because I read what they say, not what I want to have happen. But I am not going to go back and forth over 300 posts because it expends a ton of my energy and when you are wrong you will make one post acknowledging your mistake which is hardly equal to all the hundreds of posts you made challenging everyone along the way. I will simply say what I believe to be the case, you will argue and I will let it go. I doubt I will even bring it up when they do as I suggest they will because by that time it won't really matter and I am not one to hold grudges.

We will see what happens but unless you have a pipeline to Rivera and Shula, we have to rely on what everyone is saying and that is what I am posting above. Interpret it how you choose.

#127 ThunderKatt

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:36 PM

What about the games that lead up to the Saints game? D-Will looked better than ever catching the ball out of the back field and running the ball as well. If you know anything about Panthers football, you know that the offensive line takes weeks to gel and to get things going. That's been the way it has worked since 2007 and if you expect something different with most of the same cog players then you can but for me I know better than that. That is the reason why Wheels looked better towards the end and was able to show off his feet.

Not blaming Williams. Hurney.

Saints game still clouds judgement....15 games into the season he average a measly 3.3 yards per carry.

Rivera knows Williams is a roleplayer in his offense....which is why Stewart is the preferred RB and Tolbert brought in



#128 rodeo

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:56 PM

What about the games that lead up to the Saints game?

CRA said "It's just one game!" about 5 or 6 times in a row to end the season.

#129 CRA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 02:58 PM

CRA said "It's just one game!" about 5 or 6 times in a row to end the season.


False.

He would not of averaged barely over 3 yards a carry 15 games into the season....if he was tearing it up.

#130 stirs

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:00 PM

At this point, I would give someone a 7th to take him.

#131 Frizzy350

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:05 PM

False.

He would have averaged barely over 3 yards a carry 15 games into the season....if he was tearing it up.


You don't think that sporting one of the worst Olines in the league had anything to do with his YPC?

#132 CRA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:12 PM

Seriously if you say it over and over, it doesn't make it true. Everyone knows you don't like Williams and want him gone. You may get your way finally. At least we won't have to listen to the constant whining for hundred of posts in thread after thread about Williams.

But as to your post. Gettleman has said over and over that Cam is going to be a pocket passer. He is not going to run that much except on busted plays. We are not going to use the read option very much at all. I know that you will just argue that we will over and over but here are some links that say you are wrong like usual.

http://www.usatoday....giants/1936543/

How many times did Manning run in New York?? 20 times for 35 yards last year. Lets assume Newton runs 3 times as much. That is 60 times in 16 games which doesn't make him part of the running game.

http://www.charlotte...eventually.html

Here is an article by Chud where he talks about the fact that even if he had stayed as coordinator he planned to wean Cam from a running quarterback to a passing quarterback. What you fall to realize it appears is that we ran Newton as much as we did more because that was Newton's abilty level coming in to the league and what he could do right away not what we want him to evolve into doing. Going forward there is a clear mandate to not use the read option as a staple of the offense. Are they going to say we won't use it?? Of course not, you never tell teams what you are going to do, you make them practice all of it and prepare for all contingencies. But reading the article you can notice that they are also looking at how many times that the quarterback is carrying the ball versus the running back. In other words we may use the read option but we will largely use the dive back or the back going wide to run the ball not the quarterback. So while we keep the read option in, the quarterback won't be getting the ball most of the time. Sometimes perhaps but not 1/2 of the time.


And no I am not looking at a Fox offense which is really a Davidson offense which used the Erhardt-Perkins system versus the Coryell vertical offense we currently use. But Shula will use more power running formation and a lot more play action passing rather than the primary read option. There was a clear reason we got rid of our old running back coach and brought in Jim Skipper who was our running back coach during the Fox years. That was because our running game is going to look a lot more like our power running game of the past.



Again no one is saying we won't use the read option at all, or that newton won't do a few quarterback sneaks or other designed plays but when we run the read option he won't be the primary option and he is going to be a primary pocket passer. That means he won't be a large part of our running game. With an increased emphasis on the run game we will either give a lot carries to Tolbert and Stewart or we will have to find another option.

I know you will keep arguing for the next 6 months about what we will do only to find out I was right because I read what they say, not what I want to have happen. But I am not going to go back and forth over 300 posts because it expends a ton of my energy and when you are wrong you will make one post acknowledging your mistake which is hardly equal to all the hundreds of posts you made challenging everyone along the way. I will simply say what I believe to be the case, you will argue and I will let it go. I doubt I will even bring it up when they do as I suggest they will because by that time it won't really matter and I am not one to hold grudges.

We will see what happens but unless you have a pipeline to Rivera and Shula, we have to rely on what everyone is saying and that is what I am posting above. Interpret it how you choose.


1. Gettlemen is not an OC. Just bc the old dinosaur comes from the mindset QBs don't run....doesn't mean Cam doesn't run this year. Ron isn't going to but the biggest mismatch in the NFL on the shelf....not in 2013.

2. Yes, Chud had a plan for Cam to quit running. It was a LONG term plan based on him aging and become a better passer. Running short term was important. Cam is not in the time frame where Chud was referring to him not running....and Chud against reminded you from Clev Cam has gotten hurt passing, not running.

3. Just like I said last year and was right about. Cam will remain a big cog of our rush attack. 90-110 carries this year easily...

Rivera is keeping Shula to continue running the offense we have run over the past 2 years.....and Cam running is a nice part of that. Sure, some subtle tweaks and hopefully better situational calls but that was the only means to justify Shula.

It ain't rocket science...Cam will run in 2013. About the same as he has the last 2 years. Why? Bc it is what he is and makes him special....maybe a little less. Unless the OL dramatically improves it won't be much less at all.

Embrace the Newton era offense....quit trying to convince yourself we are or need to change it. Last year he lead the team in rushing despite you claiming all last offseason he would be dramatically scaled back.

Seriously? You just made an Eli Manning reference and his lack of running as an indication of what Cam will do in 2013?

#133 CRA

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 03:21 PM

You don't think that sporting one of the worst Olines in the league had anything to do with his YPC?

Some...but the fact Williams goes down easier than my grandma is his age. He also simply hasn't ran as good as he did years ago. Some people just can't except that 2008 guy doesn't exist today...

Again, 15 games into the season this board thought X....one game more against a historical joke and people forgot they thought X all season

#134 Frizzy350

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

Some...but the fact Williams goes down easier than my grandma is his age. He also simply hasn't ran as good as he did years ago. Some people just can't except that 2008 guy doesn't exist today...

Again, 15 games into the season this board thought X....one game more against a historical joke and people forgot they thought X all season


He was very effective in 2011, averaging 5.4 yards a carry. He suddenly dropped a whole yard per carry in 2012 down to 4.3. However the team averaged 5.4 yards a carry in 2011, and also dropped to 4.5 in 2012. Stewart also dropped from 5.4 to 3.6 between 2011 and 2012.

Kind of makes you wonder that when you suddenly are given one of the worst Olines in the league, it can make it hard for your runningbacks to be productive. I really don't think both Stewart and Williams regressed this much, this quickly. The issue has a lot more to do with the guys up front than them.


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