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Some folks shouldn't own guns..

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Posted

so if someone punches me I can shoot them dead now

good to know

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Posted

so if someone punches me I can shoot them dead now

good to know

If you are on/in your property and/or feel you are in imminent danger of losing your life or suffering permanent disability, and you aren't the aggressor, yes...

Rightfully so, I say.

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Posted

I don't agree that if someone punches you that you have a right to just automatically shoot them dead.. however I agree with you being able to draw your weapon to make the assailant back down from his assault and if the assailant draws a weapon then you can shoot him.

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Posted

that older guy got one hit in before they jumped out of the car and ganged up on him. those kids had no reason to shoot him.

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Posted

SZ, all that said... I certainly wouldn't use deadly force unless I felt it was justified.

I completely agree with your (I presume) thought that not every gun owner is that responsible.

I think the difference in our beliefs is that you think something can be done about that through legislation, whereas I do not think so.

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Posted

that older guy got one hit in before they jumped out of the car and ganged up on him. those kids had no reason to shoot him.

If I'd have been one of the kids and he came back at me with the gun after I'd forced him to retreat, I'd have a very good reason to shoot him.

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Posted

If you are on/in your property and/or feel you are in imminent danger of losing your life or suffering permanent disability, and you aren't the aggressor, yes...

Rightfully so, I say.

To clarify...

A single punch wouldn't make me feel I was in imminent danger of losing my life or suffering permanent disability... So no, if someone simply punches you I wouldn't think deadly force was necessary.

If they continue to punch you even after you have made a reasonable attempt to retreat, or (as in this case) if they stalk you to where you are going, exit their vehicle, approach your vehicle, and throw a punch at you when you are in a vulnerable position, then the grey area exists for our justice system to interpret.

The dude who was the aggressor was totally in the wrong in this situation. Not once, but twice.

I have value for people's lives. But why should I stand down to someone who doesn't have value for mine?

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Posted

so if someone punches me I can shoot them dead now

good to know

To use a lawyer term, it all depends on the totality of the circumstances. If your a 110 pound woman and some 6'5 250 pound guy comes at you, you would most likely pass the test for use of deadly force, even though he's just an unarmed aggressor. Just like if some dude looking like GSP comes karate choppin at me in my house,car, etc, the threshold is lowered for justifiable use of deadly force. Even when you have a duty to retreat, these same scenarios would would likely give a DA pause for thought before bringing something like a manslaughter charge against you.

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Posted

Want to make gun control laws work...

let's start with some federal mandatory sentencing guidelines with crimes involving weapons.

mandatory sentencing did wonders for the war on drugs. Wasted billions of dollars, everybody's in jail, we have an even bigger drug problem + a corrupt prison industry/lobby.

AWESOME!

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Posted

mandatory sentencing did wonders for the war on drugs. Wasted billions of dollars, everybody's in jail, we have an even bigger drug problem + a corrupt prison industry/lobby.

AWESOME!

That's because the rules on what constituted as a federal drug crime is so low...the issue is all messed up.

Violent crime with a gun is a pretty established marginot line to cross.

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Posted

That's because the rules on what constituted as a federal drug crime is so low...the issue is all messed up.

Violent crime with a gun is a pretty established marginot line to cross.

i would like to take that marginot metaphor to it's logical conclusion... i'm sure we could confuse the shiat out of the issue between the two of us before you even insert actual legislators... the problem with mandatory sentencing is that it becomes just like any other piece of legislation... it becomes a bargaining chip with the end result being the legislative branch usurping the power of the judicial... it's populism and it doesn't work.

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Posted

i would like to take that marginot metaphor to it's logical conclusion... i'm sure we could confuse the shiat out of the issue between the two of us before you even insert actual legislators... the problem with mandatory sentencing is that it becomes just like any other piece of legislation... it becomes a bargaining chip with the end result being the legislative branch usurping the power of the judicial... it's populism and it doesn't work.

I don't see it so much as a usurping the power of the judicial as much as the democratic processes dictating an increased penalty for these particular laws broken. We, the people, elect representative members who then create on our behalf a set of laws. In some instances, it has been judicial recklessness to allow repeat offenders back on the street earlier than they should or the punishment too much. In some instances, it goes the other direction. But saying the elected legislative branch usurps their power suggests that we as voters have no direct power/say in judicial matters. Outside of trial by jury of course...but even then the judge should be limited in their range of punishments.

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