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frash.exe

If we added the contract numbers of all the guys we've signed from other teams this offseason...

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Define "consistent starters."

Sherrod Martin and captain Munnerlyn? Is that your definition? What about the other years where we came up with nothing?

You can throw around cheap Internet cliches until your blue in the face, you're not going to anybody with a lick of sensibility here that support that notion that Hurney was "average."

If he was average perhaps we wouldn't be one of the worst drafting teams in the league. If he was average perhaps our finance situation wouldn't have been the worst in the league. If he was average perhaps we wouldn't have an abundance of holes across the roster's starting line up, backed up by essentially zero depth. There is nothing "average" about his track record here and to say he wasnt in a similar class with Matt millen just because you've heard millen get hype indicates you haven't actually looked at the track record

I consider a consistent starter a guy who has started 3+ seasons of games (36 total) which is a pretty reasonable standard. And he found a lot of those and pro bowlers in the draft. He was pretty good at drafting players, did a lot of other dumb stuff, but pretty good in the draft. He also left us with a Franchise Quarterback and MLB, so the cupboard isn't exactly bare.

As for Munnerlyn, you know a seventh rounder that's a quality nickel and decent spot starter is a good pick right?

You can call my post "cheap internet cliches" but you haven't shown anything, at any point to prove we are "one of the worst drafting teams in the league", besides saying it. It's the NFL, our financial situation isn't that bad. Next year we are on the other side of a bunch of his extensions' bonus money, so it will be fine.

No you clearly haven't looked the track records up, so I'll just show you:

Marty Hurney

Years as GM: 11

Record: 86-90

Number of Probowlers Drafted: 6

Winning Seasons: 3

Losing Seasons: 5

Matt Millen

Years as GM: 8

Record: 31-97

Number of Probowlers Drafted: 3

Winning Seasons: 0

Losing Seasons: 8

Now go ahead and explain to me how those are the same thing.

Hurney wasn't great and deserved to be fired because we can do better, but, if you think he was one of the worst guys ever, you seriously don't know much about football.

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I consider a consistent starter a guy who has started 3+ seasons of games (36 total) which is a pretty reasonable standard. And he found a lot of those and pro bowlers in the draft. He was pretty good at drafting players, did a lot of other dumb stuff, but pretty good in the draft. He also left us with a Franchise Quarterback and MLB, so the cupboard isn't exactly bare.

As for Munnerlyn, you know a seventh rounder that's a quality nickel and decent spot starter is a good pick right?

You can call my post "cheap internet cliches" but you haven't shown anything, at any point to prove we are "one of the worst drafting teams in the league", besides saying it. It's the NFL, our financial situation isn't that bad. Next year we are on the other side of a bunch of his extensions' bonus money, so it will be fine.

No you clearly haven't looked the track records up, so I'll just show you:

Marty Hurney

Years as GM: 11

Record: 86-90

Number of Probowlers Drafted: 6

Winning Seasons: 3

Losing Seasons: 5

Matt Millen

Years as GM: 8

Record: 31-97

Number of Probowlers Drafted: 3

Winning Seasons: 0

Losing Seasons: 8

Now go ahead and explain to me how those are the same thing.

Hurney wasn't great and deserved to be fired because we can do better, but, if you think he was one of the worst guys ever, you seriously don't know much about football.

And here's a CBS article analyzing just how terrible our drafts have been

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/20642453/marty-hurney-doomed-by-bad-drafts-signings-panthers-staff-roster-on-notice

And here's an article from chiefs fans saying "at least we're not Carolina with their GM."

You knows. Chiefs fans. The same people who were buying planes to advertise how terrible their GM was. Sadly, the article makes a ton of great points including mocking how terrible our drafts are

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/10/22/3539488/a-legacy-of-incompetence-how-jeff-hurney-is-not-scott-pioli

and finally, as for your "comparison" Id like to make special note that most of the success during that time frame came early on when the team was riding the back of players brought in by the previous regime. The more and more of those players left, the worse our franchise got. If you want to do a fair comparison, why don't you show me marty's track record from the last five years?

That way we can get an accurate depiction of how the roster that hurney himself built performed. I'll be waiting for you to get back to me on that.

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Btw... A consistent starter for the panthers =/= a consistent starter for most teams.

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I cant believe this thread isnt locked yet

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and finally, as for your "comparison" Id like to make special note that most of the success during that time frame came early on when the team was riding the back of players brought in by the previous regime. The more and more of those players left, the worse our franchise got. If you want to do a fair comparison, why don't you show me marty's track record from the last five years?

That way we can get an accurate depiction of how the roster than hurney himself built performed. I'll be waiting for you to get back to me on that.

Hurney brought in the quarterback, star defensive end, runningback, best offensive lineman, and head coach. Explain to me who had a bigger hand in the success of that 03 team? You mean the 1-15 team he inherited? Yeah, that thing was loaded. Jesus, Millen was given a playoff team before he ran it into the ground, so that's a dumb argument.

I'm not going to do mental gymnastics for you to help you make some moronic point. This whole argument started because you said

"What amazes me is Hurney's all encompassing failure at his job. Even with renowned horrible GMs like millen, you can still look at them and peg their weaknesses against a list of strengths"

and I said that was hyperbole. Because it is. Or you're dumb, I don't know you so it could be either or both.

Here's there records again, in case you forgot, or thought the first part didn't count for some reason.

Marty Hurney

Years as GM: 11

Record: 86-90

Number of Probowlers Drafted: 6

Winning Seasons: 3

Losing Seasons: 5

Matt Millen

Years as GM: 8

Record: 31-97

Number of Probowlers Drafted: 3

Winning Seasons: 0

Losing Seasons: 8

Explain to me how Millen's better. Or don't, because frankly, it's impossible.

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I cant believe this thread isnt locked yet

Maybe it's because you wouldn't know a good OP if it flew into your face since your OPs are some of the worst ever posted here

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I cant believe this thread isnt locked yet

I'd be cool with that.

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I'm still waiting for you to show me how marty Hurney's roster performed. Not the ones built on the back of a different regime. It's like saying Jon Gruden really had an eye for talent when he won it all with tony dungy's team. You must have been one of those people pining for Gruden a few months ago, huh?

What I also find remarkable is your blatant disregard for those analysis of marty's drafts. It was such a strong notion that you held so tightly to only a few short posts ago, and now that I've provided to you the true perception of the players in those drafts, it's like you magically have no interest in it for some inexplicable reason. What happened?

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I'm still waiting for you to show me how marty Hurney's roster performed. Not the ones built on the back of a different regime. It's like saying Jon Gruden really had an eye for talent when he won it all with tony dungy's team. You must have been one of those people pining for Gruden a few months ago, huh?

What I also find remarkable is your blatant disregard for those analysis of marty's drafts. It was such a strong notion that you held so tightly to only a few short posts ago, and now that I've provided to you the true perception of the players in those drafts, it's like you magically have no interest in it for some inexplicable reason. What happened?

What happened? I brought it back to tne original argument to quit wasting time. So you can explain to me, in any way, how Millen is better. Use whatever bullshit reasoning you want, but I would ask that you quit using deflections to try and get me to read posts by chiefs fans (great source). Frankly I would just like to see someone dislike Hurney so much that they list Millen's "strengths".

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What happened? I brought it back to tne original argument to quit wasting time. So you can explain to me, in any way, how Millen is better. Use whatever bullshit reasoning you want, but I would ask that you quit using deflections to try and get me to read posts by chiefs fans (great source). Frankly I would just like to see someone dislike Hurney so much that they list Millen's "strengths".

Lol what original argument? The original argument is that marty hurney was a terrible general manager. In response to said argument, you've done two things:

1. I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID MATT MILLEN WAS BETTER THAN HURNEY!! (Nobody said this)

And

2. I JUST WON'T READ THE ARGUMENTS AGAINST HURNEY! YOU ALL JUST WANNA BE TRENDY!!

You've been linked to articles which offer in depth analysis of just how poorly our drafts have been. You choose to ignore it. You've been asked to back your claims by making your research a little more pure, rather than trying to group in whatever you could find to benefit said argument, even if its misleading. Every method of viable Internet debate has been presented to you and you've chosen to ignore it because, frankly I think you're coming to grips with the reality that your opinion on marty Hurney is wrong and it would be pretty Embarassing to admit such after your little tirade a few posts back. I'm assuming that's why you tried to change the argument entirely and for some reason make it about Matt millen.

It was never about Matt millen. It was about how terrible marty Hurney was. The very fact that you're even trying to defend Hurney by saying "I mean sure, yeah, he's awful! But he isn't Matt millen" is a downright huddle gem in itself.

You've reached rock bottom.

Marty Hurney was a horrible general manager. There's no shame in admitting this.

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