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Keenan Allen Pro Day Tommorow.


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#316 koolkatluke

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 05:53 PM

Sorry, but you are the only one that thinks that.


No I'm actually not but you can have your opinion. Mine is back by some facts yours really isn't but like i said you can have it.

#317 koolkatluke

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:02 PM

Hey, I realize half the fun of speculating on the draft is debating your hopes. But we all have to agree that BPA at 14 is probably going to start. Taking that into account. Do you still want a WR? Personally, I say yes. Some of these kids will be making plays next year. Why not for us?


Dude if we had allocated the few dollars we had in FA to the other position. I would agree with you. But since we didn't get a Philips , Canty, or a starting Caliber CB. And instead signed 2 WR i can't be happy on using most our offseason resources on 1 position.

#318 CPF4LIFE

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:06 PM

No I'm actually not but you can have your opinion. Mine is back by some facts yours really isn't but like i said you can have it.



Actually, i gave you my facts last week. But whatever, everybody knows this is a never ending argument with you so not starting anything. You have only got two more weeks anyway till all this is shot, then you will see how much they really think of Lafell yourself.

#319 koolkatluke

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:37 PM

Actually, i gave you my facts last week. But whatever, everybody knows this is a never ending argument with you so not starting anything. You have only got two more weeks anyway till all this is shot, then you will see how much they really think of Lafell yourself.


You didn't give me facts. You gave a opinion. You can't have facts when predicting something. It is not a fact that any WR in this draft could beat out Lafell for the number 2 spot. All you have is your opinion and your precived disappointment in Lafell. But if you weren't so short sighted and did some research. You would notice that if you were to put Lafell scouting report, combine performance and college production and game tape up against the WR in this draft he would rank in the top 5 of this class. Add in the "actual" facts they he knows the systems, he has experience playing with Cam and has 3 years of professional game time experience. Not to mention his blocking ability. And you could see all the advantages he has over any rookie in this draft.
The only reasons you wouldn't have doubts is if there was a Megatron, AJ Green or Fitz in this draft. Meaning a elite talent that day one not only challenges Lafell but 89 as well. And we all agree there isn't one of these guys in this draft.

#320 panthers55

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

i've got no problem with wanting a guy to be healthy.

i just keep reading people say that we shouldn't draft so and so WR at 14 because they aren't at julio jones/aj green/megatron elite status. and it's not just that, i see it with other positions. it's unrealistic to expect that. it's ok to draft a WR at 14 that isn't at that elite, ready to start day one, level just like it's ok to draft any player at 14 that isn't elite because chances are, if they were elite they wouldn't have lasted that long.

people dog harder on that when it's a position that they just really don't want us to draft.

this draft has very few elite players in it. not that every draft is overflowing with elite talent, but this draft is one that you are going to have to settle for not-quite-elite at 14 or whatever, but that doesn't take away that there's talent there.

i think it would be great to draft a plug and play starter, but i don't want us to be limited to just areas that we need starters, despite my campaigning for WR in one of the first couple rounds. i agree about those other positions, but i think WR is right up there on the priority list and isn't much of a drop in the level of talent compared to the other positions, if there is any drop at all (which i don't think there is).

i also think that an added WR in the first or second (or even third if we can pick one up) can have just as much of an impact as those other positions. the WR corps needs help, not just now, but in getting ready for life after smitty.


I know you will say I am just putting off things but honestly I would look to find Smitty's replacement next year not this. Why? Next year there will be more free agents than this year given all the 1 year contracts in addition to the regular guys going into free agency. The market will be even more depressed than this year. Which means we might get some elite players for a bargain. Why not one at wide receiver. It also gives us a chance to give Hixon and Ginn as well as Adams, Gettis enough touches to see what they can do without worrying about a rookie who is developing. It lets up solve some other issues on the lines or secondary this year in the draft. And it gives Gettleman time to really see what we need and another free agent period next year to shore up all the need positions so we can focus on positions like receiver in the top of the draft.

I understand that WR is a huge want but it might not be a huge need. We have guys who can fill each slot and who were drafted to do just that. We don't have to have another WR to be competitive. Can we say the same thing about either the offensive or defensive line. Is Fua our man in the middle?? Can we go with Hangartner again this year. If either of those answers are no, then you know where we need to find an immediate upgrade and haven't done so. They are not just wants but are have tos. That immediately elevates them above WR and dictates where we should go with one of our first 2 picks unless all the quality plug and play guys are gone. If not a linemen then I would be looking for a corner and a safety in the first 2 rounds. That for me puts receiver as the fifth biggest need which is why I wouldn't draft one before the 4th.
I understand this is just my conjecture and obviously there are intriguing players at wide receiver like Austin who will likely be gone by 14 and Hunter who will go somewhere between the end of the first and the second round like Allen and Patterson will as well. And I could be totally off base as to what we will actually do but I wouldn't touch a receiver until I had addressed some of these other more pressing needs.

#321 rayzor

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:44 PM

I know you will say I am just putting off things but honestly I would look to find Smitty's replacement next year not this. Why? Next year there will be more free agents than this year given all the 1 year contracts in addition to the regular guys going into free agency. The market will be even more depressed than this year. Which means we might get some elite players for a bargain. Why not one at wide receiver. It also gives us a chance to give Hixon and Ginn as well as Adams, Gettis enough touches to see what they can do without worrying about a rookie who is developing. It lets up solve some other issues on the lines or secondary this year in the draft. And it gives Gettleman time to really see what we need and another free agent period next year to shore up all the need positions so we can focus on positions like receiver in the top of the draft.

I understand that WR is a huge want but it might not be a huge need. We have guys who can fill each slot and who were drafted to do just that. We don't have to have another WR to be competitive. Can we say the same thing about either the offensive or defensive line. Is Fua our man in the middle?? Can we go with Hangartner again this year. If either of those answers are no, then you know where we need to find an immediate upgrade and haven't done so. They are not just wants but are have tos. That immediately elevates them above WR and dictates where we should go with one of our first 2 picks unless all the quality plug and play guys are gone. If not a linemen then I would be looking for a corner and a safety in the first 2 rounds. That for me puts receiver as the fifth biggest need which is why I wouldn't draft one before the 4th.
I understand this is just my conjecture and obviously there are intriguing players at wide receiver like Austin who will likely be gone by 14 and Hunter who will go somewhere between the end of the first and the second round like Allen and Patterson will as well. And I could be totally off base as to what we will actually do but I wouldn't touch a receiver until I had addressed some of these other more pressing needs.

you may not have it listed as a top need, but obviously the team feels differently which is why they've added two in FA and have met with so many more WRs than any other position. it's a top priority for them. i think it would be safe to say that they consider it their top priority. it's hard to dispute that. they are seeing something different in these players. they are seeing something different in the urgency of it. they are seeing something different in the whole situation that we aren't and as always, they are looking at it from a different and more complete perspective than we are.

i mean it could be all one big smokescreen, but i doubt it. gettleman seems like a straight shooter.

about immediate upgrades, i am not of the opinion that you find immediate upgrades in the draft for the OL. in fact you can do a lot of damage to a season and a QB by throwing a rookie on the OL compared to a WR. to an extent i feel the same way about DT, tho its easier to catch on, imo.

i am of the opinion that pressing needs don't need to be addressed in the draft, more specifically aside from QB they shouldn't. i think pressing needs should be handled via FA and then fill in with the best talent you come across for the long term in the draft. i don't like trusting the filling of needs to untested commodities, esp. the interior of the lines. with cam, i think we had to and he showed himself to be the best man for the job. same with kuechly to a degree. it just made sense and he proved himself ready by his performance. but we found those two in the top ten and kuechly really shouldn't have fallen even that far as he was the best defensive player in that draft.

i think its very likely that the guy we draft in the first will be a starter at his position. might even be the case with the guy in the second. the main thing, tho, is just selecting the best player who as a panther can have the biggest impact thru his whole career, not just his first year. if he's not technically a starter his first year, its not that big of a deal as long as he gets needed experience and worked into the gameplan.

again, just my pov.

#322 panthers55

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:01 PM

you may not have it listed as a top need, but obviously the team feels differently which is why they've added two in FA and have met with so many more WRs than any other position. it's a top priority for them. i think it would be safe to say that they consider it their top priority. it's hard to dispute that. they are seeing something different in these players. they are seeing something different in the urgency of it. they are seeing something different in the whole situation that we aren't and as always, they are looking at it from a different and more complete perspective than we are.

i mean it could be all one big smokescreen, but i doubt it. gettleman seems like a straight shooter.

about immediate upgrades, i am not of the opinion that you find immediate upgrades in the draft for the OL. in fact you can do a lot of damage to a season and a QB by throwing a rookie on the OL compared to a WR. to an extent i feel the same way about DT, tho its easier to catch on, imo.

i am of the opinion that pressing needs don't need to be addressed in the draft, more specifically aside from QB they shouldn't. i think pressing needs should be handled via FA and then fill in with the best talent you come across for the long term in the draft. i don't like trusting the filling of needs to untested commodities, esp. the interior of the lines. with cam, i think we had to and he showed himself to be the best man for the job. same with kuechly to a degree. it just made sense and he proved himself ready by his performance. but we found those two in the top ten and kuechly really shouldn't have fallen even that far as he was the best defensive player in that draft.

i think its very likely that the guy we draft in the first will be a starter at his position. might even be the case with the guy in the second. the main thing, tho, is just selecting the best player who as a panther can have the biggest impact thru his whole career, not just his first year. if he's not technically a starter his first year, its not that big of a deal as long as he gets needed experience and worked into the gameplan.

again, just my pov.


If you just look at the sheer numbers you would say we are drafting a wide receiver in the first. I am not sure that we are, as much as doing our due diligence with no sure fire guy out there. We also have to acknowledge that we may have found our guy at the combine or the senior bowl or at the various pro-days. Are we bringing in the guys we want to draft for a final look or the guys we still have questions about? I don't know but I bet it is a combination of both. Honestly I will be fine with whoever we pick like usual. But I don't agree that we addressed our needs in free agency and can go BPA. I know that was the philosophy but am not sure we accomplished it yet. And I have more urgency to find impact guys who can start this year which would really lead us to the OL and the secondary where you can find more plug and play guys. Even at DT it is tough to find a guy who doesn't need at least a year or more to be good.

#323 Promethean Forerunner

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:11 PM

Judging from Allen's tape (prior to the knee injuries), the biggest concern has to be his ability to get separation between him and defenders. In reality, I have no problem with The Panthers drafting a possession receiver like Keenan as long as his hands are great and he can run routes like a pro but l worry about Allen being able to keep defensive backs behind him. It's a legitimate concern. Allen might have found decent success in the PAC-12 but the NFL will feature bigger, stronger and faster talent at the position. He won't just be able to rely on beating a defender with reach and height at the next level.

#324 rayzor

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:30 PM

If you just look at the sheer numbers you would say we are drafting a wide receiver in the first. I am not sure that we are, as much as doing our due diligence with no sure fire guy out there. We also have to acknowledge that we may have found our guy at the combine or the senior bowl or at the various pro-days. Are we bringing in the guys we want to draft for a final look or the guys we still have questions about? I don't know but I bet it is a combination of both. Honestly I will be fine with whoever we pick like usual. But I don't agree that we addressed our needs in free agency and can go BPA. I know that was the philosophy but am not sure we accomplished it yet. And I have more urgency to find impact guys who can start this year which would really lead us to the OL and the secondary where you can find more plug and play guys. Even at DT it is tough to find a guy who doesn't need at least a year or more to be good.

i don't think we're done in FA. i don't think we'll be done by draft time.

i think they are hoping to trade back and it could very well be that the plan is to pick one up in the second and are making sure they've got a good handle on who is going to be there at 44.

I'm in the same boat that I'll be fine with whatever....ok, probably not an OG, but beyond that I'll be fine and I'm prepared for anything, tbh.

#325 TANTRIC-NINJA

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    No please, tell me more about this Amway....sounds promising

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:56 AM

Koolkat is Brandon Lafell. It makes sense...we like you Brandon.

#326 poorboysrev

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:38 PM

i don't think we're done in FA. i don't think we'll be done by draft time.

i think they are hoping to trade back and it could very well be that the plan is to pick one up in the second and are making sure they've got a good handle on who is going to be there at 44.

I'm in the same boat that I'll be fine with whatever....ok, probably not an OG, but beyond that I'll be fine and I'm prepared for anything, tbh.


I agree with all of that man. We didn't pick Dwan up til preseason last year because Rivera saw a hole in our lineup during training camp. We traded for Murphy in May I think. The same kind of moves will happen this year. We will fill holes in the roster with cheap vets after the draft. There are ALOT of good vets unsigned. We will go bargain shopping.

#327 Saxist Fed

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:39 PM

i don't think we're done in FA. i don't think we'll be done by draft time.

i think they are hoping to trade back and it could very well be that the plan is to pick one up in the second and are making sure they've got a good handle on who is going to be there at 44.

I'm in the same boat that I'll be fine with whatever....ok, probably not an OG, but beyond that I'll be fine and I'm prepared for anything, tbh.


I agree.

I mean they made it clear that they would let the draft predicate the FA so you'd have to imagine there are moves post-draft. No way we come out with a SS, WR, DT, and RG all capable of starting off the bat from the draft.

I think they're going after who they think would be the best additions to the team as players. Not looking at a position to specifically draft at a certain point.

#328 Pantherman

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 05:32 PM

Here is my only concern with the guy. He is coming off of a knee injury and taking him 14th is a big risk. Speed I am a little concern about, but not as much as the knee and how he might could hurt it again. If it wasn't for knee I would say go for it. But since the knee is a concern right now. I say pass on him go after another WR or DT for that fact or drop down in the draft and pick up more picks along the way. Pretty simple solution.


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