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Johnathan Jones of the Charlotte Observer: Impressions after Day 3

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Well, TBH, I enjoyed Favre's shtick. He's a good ol' boy, blue-collar type much like Jake, but I always thought that his personality in many ways made people rate him higher than they should. I hate how the term "gunslinger" was adopted by the NFL, and irrationally (imo) attributed to Favre. When I thought of true gunslingers back in the day, I thought of experts who didn't make mistakes, and Favre made plenty of them. In the NFL sense, Dan Marino and Dan Fouts were the gunslingers imo. I look at Favre's successor as more of a gunslinger than Favre ever was because Favre was too cavalier with the ball. So I was never able to reconcile the term with the carelessness. 

 

In reference to Jake, I really believe that Jake was more careful with the ball, but he just didn't have Favre's talent or arm. I believe that Favre was a more accurate passer in real terms, but Favre's penchant for taking chances---just throwing the ball up for grabs in an effort to win, thinking he was Super Man or something---dropped certain stats of his down to Jake's level, more than Jake played up to Favre's level (if that makes sense). Moreover, Favre's attempts, completions and sheer yards stands for something---not to mention the ring.

 

maybe gambler is a better term than gunslinger.

 

Jake/Favre where gamblers....it was a big part of there success.  Gamblers aren't game managers.

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Wow, i knew you werent very "football-intelligent" before...but you just hit an all time low.

 

Jake and Favre are opposite ends of the spectrum as far as QBs go... Favre was a gun slinger, jake was a game manager.

 

bwahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaa.........

 

jake a game manager? lol you must not have really paid attention. the dude was nothing but a risk taker as a passer, always airing it out way down field in some really reckless situations just trusting that smitty or whoever would be able to grab it.

 

game manager = safe and controlled ≠ jake delhomme

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Posted

 

Bottom line is that no football aficionado will mistake Jake Delhomme for an elite QB, and his stats belie that point, while Smitty is arguably a HOFER.  No one except Panthers fans even really respected Delhomme as anything more than a glorified back-up, while Smitty was, and still is, known league wide for being a guy that you always have to account for on every single down. Delhomme was a game manager, while Smitty has always been a game-breaker.

 

No one is arguing Jake is elite or a HOFer.  But people claiming Jake in his prime would be a backup to Drew Stanton need to get there head checked.

 

Smitty is a HOF talent....who won't have a HOF resume if his career ended today.

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To be fair Delhomme's best season was without Smith.

 

That's true, but I wouldn't say that's a knock on Smith. In fact, it begs a lot of questions.

 

 

 

 

To be honest, like I said earlier, I learned to respect and appreciate Jake, but never placed him on a pedestal because I never saw true greatness. But, my remarks---evocative, and perhaps provocative as they seem---are more about 89 at age 25, or any age, being shitted on by Megatron. It's just not really within the scope of reality. Smitty could never be shitted on by any WR in NFL history in terms of his play,and  historical value to the team and the league. His play is just too competitive. The actual catches that he has made and the yards after the catch that he gained are what legends are made of, and definitely worthy of a true pedestal in Canton.

 

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I hope anyone who claims Delhomme was a game manager just recently came on board b/c of Cam and didn't even realize Carolina had a football team prior to Cam's existence.  I can forgive them in that case...

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there's this annoying new school mindset (i refuse to believe that gucci mane was older than 12 in 2003) that any quarterback who doesn't complete 65%-plus of his passes with like single digit INTs is a "game manager".

 

trent dilfer and brad johnson were game managers, okay?  their job was essentially to possess the ball, get in to field goal range, punch it in if possible, and not put their defense in an unfavorable position.

 

e: that's not to say that elite quarterbacks can't or aren't asked to manage the game in certain situations, of course, because they are.

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i'm still laughing about that game manager thing. wow priceless.

 

gambler is a good description of him. i think gunslinger fits as well, mainly because i view gunslingers as being risk taking throw first, ask questions later, long ball guys. jake may not have had a cannon for an arm, but the dude launched more than a few long balls in his day into very crowded areas.

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i'm still laughing about that game manager thing. wow priceless.

 

gambler is a good description of him. i think gunslinger fits as well, mainly because i view gunslingers as being risk taking throw first, ask questions later, long ball guys. jake may not have had a cannon for an arm, but the dude launched more than a few long balls in his day into very crowded areas.

yep.

 

Gunslinger IMO isn't about arm strength...it is about decision making and approach of the position.   Having a rocket arm doesn't make you a gunslinger....throwing into triple coverage 30 yards downfield off your backfoot with your tongue hanging out.... to your boy on 3rd and 5 for a TD does.

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Posted

No one is arguing Jake is elite or a HOFer.  But people claiming Jake in his prime would be a backup to Drew Stanton need to get there head checked.

 

Smitty is a HOF talent....who won't have a HOF resume if his career ended today.

 

No one claimed Jake would be Drew Stanton's back-up.

 

Anyway, just because you state that Smitty doesn't have a HOF resume doesn't mean that he doesn't have one.  When 89 hangs up his cleats---whether it be 3 days or three years---he is immediately in the discussion. many of his peers, past and present, seem to respect his resume more than some Panthers fans.

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Posted

there's this annoying new school mindset (i refuse to believe that gucci mane was older than 12 in 2003) that any quarterback who doesn't complete 65%-plus of his passes with like single digit INTs is a "game manager".

 

trent dilfer and brad johnson were game managers, okay?  their job was essentially to possess the ball, get in to field goal range, punch it in if possible, and not put their defense in an unfavorable position.

 

e: that's not to say that elite quarterbacks can't or aren't asked to manage the game in certain situations, of course, because they are.

 

yep. game managers job is to protect the ball...that means keep it on the ground as much as possible and throw short safe high percentage passes to open players with as little risk of losing the ball as possible.

 

we ran a lot, but we also threw a lot as well and i don't know many who didn't hold their breath just about every time jake cocked back that arm to throw cause you never knew what was going to happen. sometimes it would result in amazing catches that launch us downfield and other times it would get picked off...and each had about an equal chance of happening.

 

when it was crunch time in the 4th, tho, is when jake worked his magic. he was able to pull out some very tough wins mainly because of his gunslinger/gambling mindset.

 

one thing is for sure, he didn't play it safe. in '09 is when they tried turning him into a game manager and it failed miserably. they made him think about what he was doing and it screwed him up almost as much as having his elbow explode. he couldn't just react anymore. they tried backing off the coaching, but it was way too late. truthfully, tho, after tommy joe attacked him they should have been actively looking for his replacement.

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yep.

 

Gunslinger IMO isn't about arm strength...it is about decision making and approach of the position.   Having a rocket arm doesn't make you a gunslinger....throwing into triple coverage 30 yards downfield off your backfoot with your tongue hanging out.... to your boy on 3rd and 5 for a TD does.

 

and with your pants ripped. can't forget that.

 

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i'm still laughing about that game manager thing. wow priceless.

 

gambler is a good description of him. i think gunslinger fits as well, mainly because i view gunslingers as being risk taking throw first, ask questions later, long ball guys. jake may not have had a cannon for an arm, but the dude launched more than a few long balls in his day into very crowded areas.

 

You laugh, but others thought of Delhomme as a game manager. The concept is far from foreign. Google Delhomme and "game manager". What in the world? Perhaps it's semantics or plain old revisionist history on someone's part, but Jake Delhomme was a known game manager by more than a few.

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