Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sorry poor ethnic people, we have unions to crush and homeschoolers to pay for

39 posts in this topic

Posted

My kids go to a charter school and have flourished and if they went to public I think they would be bored and maybe digress.

If anything this has made many finally look at how bad public schools really are. Competition is good and if it can force public schools hand to change for the better then great.

Where has all this out rage been over public schools been the last 10 years? Where were the protests?

I will say it again. If a child gets a voucher and doesn't do better then it removes the notion more money for teachers will improve a childs test scores.

The common denominator is still the parents/guardian and the child no matter where they go or how much a teacher makes or how new the school is.

Expect more parental involvement and teacher parent relationships and scores go up.

 

You can't paint all public schools with the same brush.

 

I teach at what is right now an average public high school. Ten years ago, we were top ten in the state (back when they had the ABC scores that ranked the high schools).  The biggest differences I see are

1) Our staff was top notch back then-- I think today we are above average but not top notch.

2) We don't have the level of positive parent involvement we had then

3) We had money to for "extras" (pay teachers for after school tutorials and run extra bus routes for students staying for tutorials

 

Most of the private and charter schools that boast high test scores fall into one of two categories:

1) Have placement tests (smarter kids get in--wow they do better!)

2) High tuition cost (parents that pay for students to attend are more involved)

3) Open to all students in a geographic location, but have to provide their own transportation (cutting out the poorer kids, who generally score lower)

 

I have students that have flourished in our public school-- attending all sorts of prestigious universities and receiving scholarships.

 

Public schools aren't perfect obviously and I agree 100% that they can be improved. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that cutting teacher pay and support staff (assistants) is the way to improve it.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

cutting pay and charter schools being a viable alternative to public schools are two entirely separate issues.

 

i still don't think the goal to cut funding is some mastermind plot to blow up public schools for the schools that are for profit.

 

there just hasn't been the funds for many things the last few years and now the state doesn't have the funds. just raising taxes isn't enough.

 

and of course i'm not painting ALL public schools as being bad. just like anything. there are good schools and bad.

 

but competition HAS to be there or you get a bad product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The reps are closing down ALL schools just to bust the unions and have kids home schooled or privitize ALL schools?

You guys are sniffing glue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Last year, when Governor Bobby Jindal persuaded the Louisiana legislature to pass the nation’s most sweeping voucher program, the school that was selected to receive the largest number of voucher students was the New Living Word Church school. Although it lacked the facilities, the teachers, or the curriculum to triple its enrollment, Superintendent John White approved the school to enroll 193 voucher students. While responded to criticism by reducing the number of vouchers to 93, still nearly half the school’s enrollment.

 

Classes were taught by DVD to students in the church gymnasium. The school’s principal and pastor promised to build a new building to accommodate the influx of new students.

 

This past week, Superintendent White banned the New Living Word School from further participation in the voucher program. It seems that they charged the state more than they charged non-voucher students, and the church pocketed the difference, which was hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars annually.

 

According to Superintendent White, the school now owes the state nearly $400,000 in overcharges.

 

 http://dianeravitch.net/2013/07/01/louisianas-largest-voucher-school-kicked-out-of-program/

Vouchers are a economic windfall for otherwise struggling religious based schools. 

 

 

“Although it’s easy and completely understandable to feel outraged by New Living Word’s exploitation of the voucher program, I find it impossible to have any sympathy for Superintendent White. Time after time, for over a year, he was warned repeatedly about this particular school; he was routinely criticized for the lack of oversight and accountability employed by the Department of Education, for his decision to not conduct even a bare modicum of due diligence on schools that sought hundreds of thousands, if not millions, in state government funding. Remember, the voucher program, ostensibly, was sold to Louisiana citizens as a way of ensuring children have access to better educational opportunities.

 

“As Zack Kopplin’s research reveals, at least a third of voucher schools are teaching from anti-scientific and anti-historical textbooks, and as we learned just last month, voucher students scored almost thirty points below average on the LEAP examination. 

 http://dianeravitch.net/2013/07/01/louisianas-largest-voucher-school-kicked-out-of-program/

 

Destroying public education and the teachers' unions are red meat for the GOP''s loyal minions, the religious right.  It is also a win for the libertarian/Tea Party crowd that wants to shrink government and drown it in a bathtub.  Most importantly though, it is the great payday come true for Industrialized, cookie cutter, for-profit, educational corporations attempting to feed off the government T-I-T.

 

If these religious parents had any real faith in their ideas about life, they wouldn't need schools to reinforce church dogma.  Truth is, when you are peddling superstitious nonsense, nothing less than constant repetition in a controlled environment (bubble) seven days a week will get the results you desire. 

 

Sending children into an environment of diversity, opposing views and critical thinking is the last thing they want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Honestly, could one of the posters here that supports the demolishing of the public school systems in place of voucher etc systems explain the logic to me?  I am seriously curious.

 

 

This is part of a well organized, concerted effort by ALEC and the GOP to destroy the general public's confidence in the public school system and then hand off the 500 billion dollar industry of education to their for profit crony friends.

 

I seriously doubt too many people here have an issue with the School system or the teachers themselves. Or Unions for that matter.

What can't be supported is an Employee who works in a publically funded system for 20 years and retires at 50 on pension for the next 40 years.

It's not sustainable, see California.

 

SACRAMENTO (CBS / AP) – California needs to pay an additional $4.5 billion a year for the next three decades to shore up its financially shaky teacher retirement fund, according to a report released Wednesday by the state’s nonpartisan budget analyst.

The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office declared that the California State Teachers’ Retirement Systemicon1.png “may be the state’s most difficult fiscal challenge” and suggested that tackling the shortfall is perhaps more important than other state debts. It cited CalSTRS actuary figures that found that the pension fund would run out of money by 2044 without corrective action.

When combining the $4.5 billion with the current $1.4 billion annual contribution, the state would pay more for the pensions of retired K-12 teachers and community college instructors than it does for the entire University of California and California State Universitysystemsicon1.png combined.

The bulk of that additional money will likely have to come from taxpayers because investments and teacher contributions aren’t enough.

 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/03/20/california-teacher-pensions-need-4-5b-more-each-year-report-finds/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I seriously doubt too many people here have an issue with the School system or the teachers themselves. Or Unions for that matter.

What can't be supported is an Employee who works in a publically funded system for 20 years and retires at 50 on pension for the next 40 years.

It's not sustainable, see California.

 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/03/20/california-teacher-pensions-need-4-5b-more-each-year-report-finds/

 

I agree.  I doubt many people in NC have a problem with the public school system to the point that they want to destroy it, but most people will passively watch as the school system is destroyed none-the-less. 

 

At the same time there are elements of society, either for ideological or financial reasons; evangelicals, libertarians, private industry and their political arm ALEC, aggressively advocating for the end of public education as we know it.

 

Politicians on the right are fed their legislation by ALEC, who is advocating for big business.  Big business is more powerful politically than at any other time in our lifetimes.  They are viewed legally as people and can contribute millions anonymously to political causes.  One of big businesses goals via ALEC is to privatize as much of the educational financial pie as possible. 

 

The best way to do that is to destroy the public's confidence in public education.  Politicians are doing their part with relaxed educational standards and diverting public resources in the form of vouchers to for-profit schools.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nan. prior to the current gov in NC, were NC schools and test scores trending up or down the last 10 years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

nan. prior to the current gov in NC, were NC schools and test scores trending up or down the last 10 years?

 

Go ahead pstall and make your point.

 

You know you want to! :zoro:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think that the general belief is that a private company surely can run things better than the gov't, and on the surface, that's probably the case...

But when you start putting profit margins ahead of the actual education, which we all know happens, it's doesn't really compute.

Public education is never going to be perfect, but it can work... firing eleventy billion TA's, cutting teacher benefits and making every education student in the country say "pffftttt, I'm not teaching in NC" isn't the way to fix it.

Biscuit....I have a question that I interested in people's view.

Everyone is bitching about reducing TA's in public schools. We never had TA's when I was in public school years ago and the teachers did a great job. When did it become a necessity for a teacher to add resources to their classroom to have the same success?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Biscuit....I have a question that I interested in people's view.

Everyone is bitching about reducing TA's in public schools. We never had TA's when I was in public school years ago and the teachers did a great job. When did it become a necessity for a teacher to add resources to their classroom to have the same success?

 

 

You never had TA's in Elementary school?

 

We did.

 

That's mainly the issue (the lower grades)...  they've increased class sizes so much (and now they've completely removed the class size restriction) so basically teachers (in some schools, not all) have become glorified babysitters.

 

Some of the classes here have 35+ kids.  With no TA that makes a teachers job exponentially harder.  They have to work to just control the kids and the teaching becomes secondary.  Especially when you throw in other situations like inclusion of behaviorally handicapped kids...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You never had TA's in Elementary school?

We did.

That's mainly the issue (the lower grades)... they've increased class sizes so much (and now they've completely removed the class size restriction) so basically teachers (in some schools, not all) have become glorified babysitters.

Some of the classes here have 35+ kids. With no TA that makes a teachers job exponentially harder. They have to work to just control the kids and the teaching becomes secondary. Especially when you throw in other situations like inclusion of behaviorally handicapped kids...

I was in elementary school in the 70's and the only people we had other than the teacher was a parent who might come in every now and then. We did not have TA's.

Sounds like we now need TA's because most parents are doing a shitty job in installing proper respect and behavior in their kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites