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Handling of a Franchise Quarterback


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#31 Kurb

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:46 AM

with the present state of our OL and secondary....and future cap situation.  Not sure if we can even risk going all in on weapons.

 

Our OL next year may be Kalil.  Just Kalil.  Then hope and well wishes about DII Gs and finding 2 new Ts.

 

I'm more of an eternal optimist these days, but I don't think the cap will be quite the nightmare it was this season.

 

I'd have next to 0 issue blowing up the Offensive Line and having Kalil as the center piece and I would even go so far as to say I expect good things from Amini this year by seasons end.

 

While it could be Kalil and *People* it could also be something like   LT: Pick, G:Amini/Wharton C:Kalil, G:Amini/Wharton/Kug  T: Pick/Gross

 

That , on paper, wouldn't be so bad.



#32 SCP

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:47 AM

Last season we were 9th in TDs per drive despite being 28th in average starting field position.

We were 9th in least amount of turnovers per drive.

We were 9th in red zone TD percentage

We were 6th in 3rd down conversion percentage

We were 10th in avoiding three and outs.


Point being, our offense hasn't been the issue, and we have plenty of players around Cam Newton to be successful.


All good points. However, the MAJOR unknown in 2013 is Shula. I have zero confidence in that guy right now and I fear he is going to go Jeff Davidson on us.

#33 TheRumGone

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:48 AM

For me, we haven't handled it well. But at the same time it's ok that we have been putting it off.

 

Cam is so talented that he overshadows the deficiencies on offense when he plays well. Hence the last half of the season. Our defense needed to be shored up and so far it has been minus proven talent in the secondary. We have the pieces to win now (even with this o-line) because Cam is such a freak and can take games over by himself. I want him to have pieces though but i feel like this is a process to making us a contender year in and year out. Imagine having a top 5 defense in the future. and having talented pieces around Cam. We have had to take the reverse approach to that of Seattle and San Fran. Who had these things but then drafted a qb. We drafted a franchise qb and are building the team around him, both offensively and defensively.

 

These things take time. O-line is the only concern for me this upcoming season. Cam will make plays and keep us in ballgames because he is a freak.



#34 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:49 AM

Offensive stats being driven by the QB position is true for about 95% of the football world.  Consider that the teams that were 1,2, and 3 in TDs per drive were QBed by Brady, Brees, and Peyton Manning in that order.

 

We have good offensive skill players.  We do need O-line help.  That will go a long ways to helping D-Will and Co.

 

We can always get better, but our defense needed more help than our offense, which is why we have focused on drafting for defense these last couple of drafts.

We have decent skill position players....we overrate them.  We also let who they were influence what they are now. 

 

We have a 34 yr old WR and Greg Olsen and a RB.  All that behind a weak OL.

 

All those RBs? They cancel each other out largely.  They don't hold the value we give them simply b/c only one plays.  We put one good RB on the field. 

 

Take Luke off the field we don't drop much.  Take Cam off the field and our record setting franchise offense suddenly will compete for franchise worst.  Talent around Cam isn't strong.



#35 teeray

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:49 AM

I've missed ranting so...



Basically the Carolina Panthers drafted one of the most "Sky's the Limit" QB prospects in recent history, gave him the ball as a rookie and said "Uhhh go run around and throw the ball and stuff, but don't expect any help from us" and continued to do it.

I can only pray Gett's piles up the offensive weapons next offseason, b/c if he doesn't we will be in the same situation we are looking to be headed into now.

I think people forget just how epically bad our defense was just two seasons ago.

Even last year the defense was not as good as the total yardage and defensive ppg would suggest.

If we would have loaded up on offensive players people would be saying

"They haven't been helping Cam enough on defense"

#36 carolinanimal

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:50 AM

  

 

 

Out of 24 players drafted in those 3 years, 16 are no longer with the team.  Of the 8 that remain, Cam and Hardy are the only playmakers.  4 of the 8 are starters (Captain shouldn't be but WTFever) and the other 4 are JAGs.

 

This part is so depressing :(



#37 teeray

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:53 AM

All good points. However, the MAJOR unknown in 2013 is Shula. I have zero confidence in that guy right now and I fear he is going to go Jeff Davidson on us.


I agree he is an unknown and I hope you are wrong. But I can't fairly judge a guy off a couple preseason games. We will see but you are correct.

#38 TheRumGone

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:53 AM

I think people forget just how epically bad our defense was just two seasons ago.

Even last year the defense was not as good as the total yardage and defensive ppg would suggest.

If we would have loaded up on offensive players people would be saying

"They haven't been helping Cam enough on defense"

 

Not only that but people don't think that a great defense is actually helping Cam.

 

And I don't want to be the fuging Saints
 



#39 Kurb

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:55 AM

I think people forget just how epically bad our defense was just two seasons ago.

Even last year the defense was not as good as the total yardage and defensive ppg would suggest.

If we would have loaded up on defensive player people would be saying

"They haven't been helping Cam enough on defense"

 

 

Ahh, but you are missing what I am saying.

 

I wasn't expecting to win more than a handful of games Cam's first two seasons.

 

They should have been dedicated to making Cam and his offense the absolute best they could be. Weapons, Dominate Line Play, QB Coaching and confidence building is all the Carolina Panthers should have been worried about internally. 

 

Not saying every draft pick should have been Offense, but Cam should have been our focus. Not trying to limp into the playoffs with a halfassed team.

 

 

If you consider your post earlier, about top 10 in all those categories of offense, and then consider how the Saints became SB champions after they signed Brees you will see what I am saying.

 

If the Panthers were putting up a 34 burger every game, last season we could have likely made the playoffs, still drafted Defensive Tackles galore (not star mind you), and could be focusing on completeing the team. 

 

Instead the FO (not gonna pin it all on Hurney) decided they could bandaid things to get us some wins, and instead of healing our wounds after the lockout the FO smeared poo in them and wondered why we had infections.



#40 teeray

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:56 AM

Take Luke off the field we don't drop much. Take Cam off the field and our record setting franchise offense suddenly will compete for franchise worst. Talent around Cam isn't strong.

Isn't that true of any great QB? If Payton Manning gets hurt Denvers offense would also bottom out. Same with Brees or Brady.

#41 Kurb

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:56 AM

This part is so depressing :(

 

Well, the 2012 and 2013 drafts look fuging amazing right this second, so chin up big guy.

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#42 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:57 AM

I think he definitely could have been given MORE help, but I also don't think he (or our offense) has been neglected as much as some here think.  When he was drafted (or in Shockey and Olsen's case, thereabouts) we had a star #1 WR, two very good RBs (not his fault, or the management's [directly] that the RBs have been more or less misused since Cam has been here), and very good TE in his prime and one good TE a little past his prime.  We had more or less a very solid OL that hasn't been planned around well for a few years now.  Injuries, age, and bloated contracts that had to be trimmed have deteriorated this once mighty OL.

 

Now I DO think the picks we've used on trying to get Cam help since he's been here (WRs and OL) have been pretty poorly picked.  To this day there's only been 1 offensive pick since Cam was drafted that I had positive feelings about immediately, and that one ended up not even working out well - Adams.  Amini might pan out, if I had to guess I'd say he'll turn into at least a decent starter.  Obviously we don't know enough about Barner yet (or Kugbilla, though starting out on IR is a pretty bad omen) but I'd give Barner a thumbs up so far.  Other than those two or three picks (but possibly none of them in the long run), the choices for offensive help have been much worse than the effort put into it.

 

The effort: 

 

- Resign two very good, very productive (in the near past) RBs.  I think (and I seem to recall reading something to this effect, but I could be wrong) that Deangelo and Stewart were resigned less out of loyalty (which is the popular opinion) and more to help out the new young QB.  They wanted a dependable part of the offense to rely on in the event Cam struggles, and the flexibility to add or subtract burden on Cam based on what they thought he could handle. Again, not his or their faults the running game has been somewhat misused.

 

- Get him two (for the first year) very dependable TEs.  As the saying goes, a good TE is a young QB's best friend.  It's been pretty common lately for teams to take a TE high in the draft when they take a QB for this very reason.  Luck - Fleener and that other guy, two in one draft.  Ponder - Rudolph.  Dalton - already had Greshem and took Eifert this year.  Ryan - got Tony Gonzalez to help out after Ryan's first couple of years.  Kaepernick - already had V. Davis.

 

- Draft picks.  In three drafts, they've taken two WRs, one scat back, two Gs, one T (his own college LT), and one C/G.  You could certainly argue that most of the investment in the draft they've made has been too late in the drafts, but in Hurney and Gettleman's defense (pun intended) the defense has been the weaker side of the ball for quite a few years now (excluding 2010 when my high school defense could have been playing for Carolina and it still wouldn't have been the weaker side).  It only makes sense to invest in strengthening the weaker side.  Next year I see our first three picks going something like this:  in the 1st - a WR or OT, in the 2nd - a CB if we took an OT in the 1st or OT if we didn't, in the 3rd - whichever of the three we haven't taken yet.  If G is still a need, that should be addressable in FA easily enough.  The most affordably anyway.  Also, Hurney's obstinate, stubborn attempt to find "the next Steve Smith" has hurt the offense (Edwards, Pilares, Adams).

 

 

In summary, in the draft we got Cam in we took a WR and two OL.  Four out of eight picks were on offense, and we had glaring needs on defense as well.  After his rookie year he showed he didn't need as much help as your average young QB, so they focused more on defense.  The only problem with how he's been handled so far, in my opinion, has been the judgement of who has been picked in the draft to help him.  Not the amount of help he's been given. 



#43 JawnyBlaze

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:01 AM

Isn't that true of any great QB? If Payton Manning gets hurt Denvers offense would also bottom out. Same with Brees or Brady.

 

While I agree with your point for the most part, there's one point against it:  the year Brady went out for the season in game 1 and the Patriots went 11-5.  There was certainly a dip in production, but they didn't bottom out.  I do agree for most any other team with an elite QB NOT coached by Belicheat, losing the QB would completely kill their offense.
 



#44 Rules&Regulations

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:01 AM

The Colts, Redskins, and Seahawks' defenses also didn't cost them a majority of their games. Easy to build around your QB when the rest of the team is doing their job.

#45 teeray

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 09:04 AM

Ahh, but you are missing what I am saying.

I wasn't expecting to win more than a handful of games Cam's first two seasons.

They should have been dedicated to making Cam and his offense the absolute best they could be. Weapons, Dominate Line Play, QB Coaching and confidence building is all the Carolina Panthers should have been worried about internally.

Not saying every draft pick should have been Offense, but Cam should have been our focus. Not trying to limp into the playoffs with a halfassed team.


If you consider your post earlier, about top 10 in all those categories of offense, and then consider how the Saints became SB champions after they signed Brees you will see what I am saying.

If the Panthers were putting up a 34 burger every game, last season we could have likely made the playoffs, still drafted Defensive Tackles galore (not star mind you), and could be focusing on completeing the team.

Instead the FO (not gonna pin it all on Hurney) decided they could bandaid things to get us some wins, and instead of healing our wounds after the lockout the FO smeared poo in them and wondered why we had infections.


Yeah but my point is, if you already have a top 10 offense but a bad defense why would you be focused on your offense.

Not saying we couldn't have done more on offense, we did draft some guys though when are pretty much all off the team or hurt now :(

Two years ago our offense was pretty awesome. We still sucked as a team bc of defense and special teams


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