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Are Cam and Rivera adjoined at the hip?


Best Answer DRSundrop, 21 September 2013 - 10:40 AM

I think the message the OP is trying to convey is that Gettleman could possibly view our HC and QB as one. Perhaps the OP is insuating they are linked together as in they may not be here long but I dont think the OP is saying they ARE LINKED together and should GO as some of you are flaming him for.

 

First off, I'm completely for the Carolina Panthers not any one individual on the team. I think Cam is an exceptional QB that is inevitably linked to Rivera but I'm certain Gettleman has the knowledge to assign fault for this teams failures and shortcomings and understands that Newton can be successful in this league.

 

The best comment or question I've seen on our offensive woes was the other day and I don't know who said it so I'm not sure who to give credit to but someone asked "Would you put Manning in a read option offense? ..So why you keep Cam in the pocket?"

 

The main trouble here is that we don't know the root of the problems because we as a fanbase are kept in the dark about the inner workings of this team and can only speculate.

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#106 carolinarolls

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 04:33 PM

Everyone talks about the "#2 receiver"

I did not know there were any 9-foot free agents out there.

That's what it looks like we would need.

#107 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 04:44 PM

I don't see anything there about moving on from Cam.

First order of business if our GM wants this offense to be successful is to fix this shitty o line. That hasn't happened.

 

I agree, but I was not offering my opinion, something conveniently missed here.  I was offering Gettlemen's.  Let's look at it from his--not your's, not mine, based on what we know:

 

1. Gettlemen has cash but has not brought in much on the OL....He said they need to develop chemistry and that takes time.  You think he needs to do more, I think he needs to do more--but Gettlemen seems to disagree with us.

 

2. Gettlemen has cash and brought in 2 borderline WRs. There have not been rumors of a trade or a free agent signing, as there were with Wharton and Mikell.  I want a stud WR to add to the mix, you want a stud WR to add to the mix.  Gettlemen has not seemed too interested.   It matters not what we think.

 

3. Gettlemen told Cam that it is time to Win---not 2014---now.  That is the bottom line. 

 

4.  Cam has been more of a pocket passer during the first 2 games.  He has had pressure, but when he has not, he has been indecisive and his accuracy is off.   Gettlemen does not care about Cam '11 or '12.  He wants to see what Cam '13 is going to do.  Cam has displayed some things that make intelligent football experts question his ability to be that QB-that is a common opinion.  He flashes and has great plays, but some defenses are able to shut him down.  He seems confused and frustrated by them.  The fact that Gettlemen thinks pocket passers are the way to go and the fact that Shula has Cam in the pocket is not a coincidence.  This could be Cam's audition for the Gettlemen blueprint.  Are the W's rolling in?  Has he been effective in the pocket?  After 2 games, I would say "no." 

 

5.  Gettlemen has been true to his core, and one of his philosophical foundations is that pocket passing QBs are the winners.  If Cam is struggling in the pocket and the Panthers are losing, I wonder what Gettlemen would think?  Give Cam $20 million per season for the next 5 year? 

 

That does not sound like a 5-year, $110 m extension to me.  It does not mean that Cam is gone either--it means what I said--there is room for speculation. Cam will have to improve, in my opinion, to get a big deal from Gettlemen.  As it stands now, I am not sure he is the future.  I don't care what Richardson said after 16 games.   I am pretty sure you didn't read this far.



#108 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 04:54 PM

All I will say is that if we did move Cam Newton or decided to move on from Cam Newton after three years or even four years it would be the worst decision in the history of the Panthers franchise.

And that is saying a lot with the decisions we have made.

 

I think that Cam will be dealt if he cannot become the pocket passer Gettlemen wants-and that could be a mistake.  I think you could be 100% correct, but I also think, in the wrong system, giving Cam $120 million could be equally as tragic. 

 

For Cam to be great, he needs weapons, protection, and the option to run.  I am not sure Gettlemen sees football that way--he sees them multi-threat QBs as gimmicks.  I could be wrong, but we all have to piece it together.
 

Cam is not being handled right at the moment, if you ask me.  If Gettlemen bases a decision on a player with no protection, weapons, and coaching--dealing Cam could be the lowest point--like when the Steelers sent Unitas to Baltimore.  You remember that, don't you?  :) 

 

I



#109 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 04:56 PM

Just a question... How many QBs in the league were not true pocket passers last year? So what percentage of "not true pocket passers" were in the playoffs?

 

Give Cam a coach that knows how to maxmize an offense, and he'll be in the playoffs too - from the pocket or anywhere else.

 

Gettlemen answers your question in the quote I posted.

 

I agree with the second statement.  I wonder if Gettlemen does.



#110 TheRed

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 04:59 PM

I agree, but I was not offering my opinion, something conveniently missed here.  I was offering Gettlemen's.  Let's look at it from his--not your's, not mine, based on what we know:

 

1. Gettlemen has cash but has not brought in much on the OL....He said they need to develop chemistry and that takes time.  You think he needs to do more, I think he needs to do more--but Gettlemen seems to disagree with us.

 

2. Gettlemen has cash and brought in 2 borderline WRs. There have not been rumors of a trade or a free agent signing, as there were with Wharton and Mikell.  I want a stud WR to add to the mix, you want a stud WR to add to the mix.  Gettlemen has not seemed too interested.   It matters not what we think.

 

3. Gettlemen told Cam that it is time to Win---not 2014---now.  That is the bottom line. 

 

4.  Cam has been more of a pocket passer during the first 2 games.  He has had pressure, but when he has not, he has been indecisive and his accuracy is off.   Gettlemen does not care about Cam '11 or '12.  He wants to see what Cam '13 is going to do.  Cam has displayed some things that make intelligent football experts question his ability to be that QB-that is a common opinion.  He flashes and has great plays, but some defenses are able to shut him down.  He seems confused and frustrated by them.  The fact that Gettlemen thinks pocket passers are the way to go and the fact that Shula has Cam in the pocket is not a coincidence.  This could be Cam's audition for the Gettlemen blueprint.  Are the W's rolling in?  Has he been effective in the pocket?  After 2 games, I would say "no." 

 

5.  Gettlemen has been true to his core, and one of his philosophical foundations is that pocket passing QBs are the winners.  If Cam is struggling in the pocket and the Panthers are losing, I wonder what Gettlemen would think?  Give Cam $20 million per season for the next 5 year? 

 

That does not sound like a 5-year, $110 m extension to me.  It does not mean that Cam is gone either--it means what I said--there is room for speculation. Cam will have to improve, in my opinion, to get a big deal from Gettlemen.  As it stands now, I am not sure he is the future.  I don't care what Richardson said after 16 games.   I am pretty sure you didn't read this far.

 

When I first heard his comments about Cam "winning", I was taken aback a bit until I read it in the context that it was conveniently taken out of. If you are going to present that quote it is important to do so in it's entirety.

 

I very much like that we brought in Ginn, who at this point is outplaying Lafell.

 

As for Hixon, I had high hopes, but I'm not sure he will ever be a viable healthy weapon for us this season. It kind of disappoints me because Gettleman knew of his injury history from his days working for the Giants.

 

On this "pocket passer" talk. If that's what we have planned, shoehorning Cam into an offense that doesn't fit him, then not only are we wasting our time, we are wasting his. I seriously hope that isn't what our GM is doing.

 

If this franchise is dumb enough to move on from a talent like Cam, without giving him the benefit of playing in a system that fits his strengths, or giving him a chance with a competent staff. That may be my breaking point.

 

I've tolerated the lame duck season in 2010, we're doing it again just three years later. I won't tolerate much more. I hope that JR and Gettleman are not that shortsighted to make a disastrous mistake. Time will tell.



#111 tiger7_88

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:02 PM

Lol you can choose to be blind to it but I'm just saying you can't stare down receivers in this league. 

 

 

I agree.  If you stare down receivers, that leads to more and more interceptions.

 

Like Cam's... ermmmm... ONE interception?

 

Great point.



#112 Mike

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:08 PM

I think that Cam will be dealt if he cannot become the pocket passer Gettlemen wants-and that could be a mistake.  I think you could be 100% correct, but I also think, in the wrong system, giving Cam $120 million could be equally as tragic. 

 

For Cam to be great, he needs weapons, protection, and the option to run.  I am not sure Gettlemen sees football that way--he sees them multi-threat QBs as gimmicks.  I could be wrong, but we all have to piece it together.
 

Cam is not being handled right at the moment, if you ask me.  If Gettlemen bases a decision on a player with no protection, weapons, and coaching--dealing Cam could be the lowest point--like when the Steelers sent Unitas to Baltimore.  You remember that, don't you?  :)

 

I

 

Just going to throw this in here after seeing those other Cam Newton threads with quotes from Jerry Richardson saying that "Cam is the last quarterback I'll ever have"... 

 

If Jerry Richardson believes in Cam being this team's future, and it came to a point where David Gettleman wants to trade Cam away. Who would Jerry Richardson put his weight behind, the QB he believes is this team's future, or the general manager he has hired to build a contender?

 

I think it would be interesting to see who Jerry would back, because while Gettleman has done as good a job as he could to date, there are plenty of up and coming people that could get their chance as a GM in the next season or two. And while young QBs come along each year, QBs like Cam are come along once in a while. 



#113 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:13 PM

No I wouldn't give Cam Eli money right now. I'm curious though, which QB in his third year or less would you give Eli money to?

 

I am giving the Gettlemen perspective from what we know if him through his actions and comments.  He would probably feel comfortable giving that kind or money to second year QBs- Andrew Luck, maybe Tanneyhill, and maybe Kaepernick because he has shown to be effective in the pocket. 

 

There are only about 10 starting QBs on first contracts, so that is a rather large number.  I firmly believe that Gettlemen has no interest in the Vicks and RGIIIs. 

 

My point was this:  Cam is going to have to improve in the pocket before Gettlemen makes him rich.  He is not going to give $120 million to what he sees as a gimmick.

 

Just speculation.  I hope Cam has the support (players and coaches) and shows everyone he can do it.



#114 tiger7_88

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:17 PM

 

Personally, though, I can't see any new head coach wanting to get rid of Cam Newton as his QB. Cam has made a big impact on the league so far. He's thrown for over 8,000 yards, 43 TDs, and a 1,500 rushing yards and 22 TDs. 

 

 

This is really all that needs to be said.

 

Wait, no... I'm sorry.

 

CAM OVERTHREW A RECEIVER BURN HIM BURN HIM BURN HIM!!!!~111!!



#115 tiger7_88

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:19 PM

However, from Gettlemen''s perspective, which is what I offered, he (apparently) thinks Cam has the weapons and protection

 

 

Then Gettlemen is a goddammed moron (if that is what he truly thinks).



#116 MHS831

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:26 PM

When I first heard his comments about Cam "winning", I was taken aback a bit until I read it in the context that it was conveniently taken out of. If you are going to present that quote it is important to do so in it's entirety.

 


 

On this "pocket passer" talk. If that's what we have planned, shoehorning Cam into an offense that doesn't fit him, then not only are we wasting our time, we are wasting his. I seriously hope that isn't what our GM is doing.

 

 

Not sure how expecting your QB to start winning is taken out of context.  Winning is the only context.

 

The second point is not just talk, it is talk from the GM.  And you state what I have been saying the whole time--It is the reality of the situation--not treason to say it.



#117 rodeo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

Not sure how expecting your QB to start winning is taken out of context.  Winning is the only context.

 

The second point is not just talk, it is talk from the GM.  And you state what I have been saying the whole time--It is the reality of the situation--not treason to say it.

 

Expecting your QB to start winning while at the same time refusing to upgrade one of the the worst o-lines in Panthers history makes you either a fuging idiot or a disingenuous asshole.
 



#118 rodeo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:34 PM

Btw, the last time Cam left the field, we were winning.

 

But I guess it's Cam's fault we lost, even though the GM who told him to start winning refused to upgrade the secondary that lost us the game.



#119 TheRed

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:35 PM

Not sure how expecting your QB to start winning is taken out of context. Winning is the only context.

The second point is not just talk, it is talk from the GM. And you state what I have been saying the whole time--It is the reality of the situation--not treason to say it.


I'll have to look. Joe Person tried to twist it all into a big story by describing a "pregnant pause" from Gettleman.

There were numerous threads about this. There was definitely more to it.

#120 d-dave

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 05:41 PM

Preach it brother teeray!

I love how worked up y'all get over things you don't know.. I love to speculate too, but there is a point where you have to trust those who are paid to make decisions.

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