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Member Since 04 Jun 2010
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Draft lottery thread

18 April 2015 - 06:38 PM

Anybody watching? I mean, I don't expect us to win but if we did it could potentially be a franchise changer.

Just seems odd to see nothing whatsoever about it in here so here it is!

Basically from what I understand this lottery is only for the first pick, meaning the Canes could pick first, fifth, or sixth depending on how things shake out.

Maybe lottery luck finally shines on an NC team tonight?

The 2012-13 76ers and this year's Hornets...

04 April 2015 - 06:39 AM

A long time ago, the 76ers tried to actually win basketball games and fielded competitive teams. Right now, they are in the midst of a historic rebuild the likes of which we haven't seen in sports, but I think it's important to see why they are doing such a thing, and particularly how they got there, because it bears a striking resemblance to the recent years of Charlotte basketball.


This is the roster for the 2011-12 Sixers, a team that finished 35-31 in the lockout shortened season, good enough for the 8th seed in the East. They upset the Bulls in the first round and lost in seven to the Celtics in the conference semis.


The players on that team drafted by Philly:


Lavoy Allen, 2nd round, 50th, 2011

Spencer Hawes, 1st round, 10th, 2007

Jrue Holiday, 1st round, 17th, 2009

Andre Iguodala, 1st round, 9th, 2004

Evan Turner, 1st round, 2nd, 2010

Nikola Vucevic, 1st round, 16th, 2011

Lou Williams, 2nd round, 45th, 2005

Thad Young, 1st round, 12th, 2007


It was generally thought that this team had a bright future with a young core that would only improve going forward, but to take the next step and contend with the "Big Three" Heat, they would need to tweak the roster. With Dwight Howard to the Lakers a formality, but the Magic getting cold feet about taking back Andrew Bynum, the Sixers saw an opportunity to acquire an All-Star center and traded Mo Harkless, Vucevic, and a 1st to Orlando and Iguodala to Denver for Jason Richardson and Andrew Bynum.


Of course, it was a move that backfired tremendously and will go down as one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history. The red flags that gave Orlando cold feet about Bynum showed up in the worst way in Philadelphia and he never played a game in a Sixers uniform. Despite this colossal bust, it didn't completely tank the season as Philly finished 9th in the East with a 34-48 record. Philly fired it's GM, Doug Collins resigned, and the Great Tank commenced with the hiring of Sam Hinkie, who gutted the young but underwhelming core of the team in favor of acquiring draft prospects with higher ceilings and avoiding making big splashy moves on the trade market and in free agency.


The saga of the 76ers looks remarkably familiar to the Bobcats-Hornets transition, from the initial optimism of the young core, to the risky move that backfires and turns a promising future into a lost season. The question is, where do the Hornets go from here? Obviously, a tank on the Sixers level is probably overkill, but you can see why it was done.

The "Evolution" of Rich Cho's Trades

12 February 2015 - 04:12 AM

DISCLAIMER: If you don't want to read this longform recap, feel free to skip to the TL;DR spot and start there.


Considering the most recent trade the Hornets made involved a player and pick that were previously traded for, I thought I'd go back and connect the dots to see just how all of the trades in the Rich Cho era ended up, since he's generally regarded on this board as a very good trader when it comes to these "long-term" asset type deals.


Technically for this exercise you could also throw in the cap room created via expiration of deals that were traded for (see: Ben Gordon) but I'm leaving that out since generally there are always expiring contracts opening up money every offseason.


Rich Cho took over following the 2010-11 season. His first move to "tear down" what would become a tank job that gave us the opportunity to draft MKG (<----much less haunting take on that scenario, IMO) was a three-team deal with the Bucks and Kings and really where this story begins. The Bobcats put forth Shaun Livingston, Stephen Jackson, and a 1st rounder (acquired from Portland in the Gerald Wallace deal that season.)


In that deal, the Bobcats acquired Corey Maggette from the Bucks and the draft pick that became Bismack Biyombo from the Kings.


Mid-season, the Bobcats traded a 2nd round pick to OKC for Byron Mullens, who ultimately became a free agent. Much like Mullens' career, this trade is insignificant to the story.


That 2012 offseason, the Bobcats traded Corey Maggette to the Pistons for Ben Gordon and a future first round pick that would become Noah Vonleh in 2014, continuing the saga of that first deal (will recap and summarize all these deals at the end.)


Mid-season of 2012-13, the Bobcats trade Matt Carroll to the Hornets for Hakim Warrick. A few months later, Warrick is dealt to the Magic for Josh McRoberts, who will ultimately become a free agent with the team, ending this trade saga.


At the trade deadline of the following season, free agent signings Jeff Adrien and Ramon Sessions are shipped to Milwaukee for Gary Neal and Luke Ridnour. Ridnour would become a free agent that summer.


On 2014 draft night, the Hornets trade the rights to Shabazz Napier to the Miami Heat for the rights to the picks that would become PJ Hairston and Semaj Chrston (who would be shipped to OKC) as well as a 2019 2nd round pick. Also on draft night, the Hornets ship their 2nd round pick Dwight Powell and Brendan Haywood to Cleveland for the non-guaranteed contract of Alonzo Gee, who is later waived.


Finally, the most recent trade: Gary Neal and the 2019 2nd round pick to the Timberwolves for Mo Williams and Troy Daniels.


TL;DR VERSION STARTS HERE -> - So, to recap: there have been four trade "storylines" in the Rich Cho era, two of which can potentially keep going as Daniels, Hairston and Vonleh will still be under contract in the future.


- Matt Carroll becomes a straight-up swap for Josh McRoberts.


-Jeff Adrien and Ramon Sessions becomes Mo Williams


-Shabazz Napier becomes PJ Hairston and Troy Daniels


-And finally, the one that started it all: Shaun Livingston, Stephen Jackson and a first becomes Bismack Biyombo and Noah Vonleh.


Of course, you can always take things further back on the "trade tree" (Gerald Wallace) and you can surmise that the expiring deals allowed us to sign free agents the following off season, but I wanted to narrow the focus to what Cho started with and solely from a trade perspective.


*****NOTE: Since the most recent trade involves shipping out pieces acquired from two separate deals, for the purpose of the exercise I surmised that Williams was swapped for Neal and Daniels in exchange for the 2019 2nd.


2014 1st Round Rookies Minutes and Noah Vonleh

13 January 2015 - 01:40 AM

The Noah Vonleh Project has been well-documented on this board. He is very skilled, but also very raw, and missed an entire preseason due to injury. His play hasn't exactly brought the house down, but neither has the frontcourt rotation playing in front of him, leading some frustrated fans on here to complain about his lack of minutes given the investment of a lottery pick.


Therefore, I decided to investigate and see whether or not the lack of minutes for Vonleh is a common theme across the league or is he really that far behind the rest of his class. Keep in mind that each rookie comes into a unique environment and that affects the minutes distribution (Ex: Wiggins playing on a bad MIN team vs. McDermott on contending CHI team.)


2014 Draft (www.basketball-reference.com/players)


1. Andrew Wiggins - CLE (traded to MIN) - 36 GP, 36 starts, 32.6 MPG


2. Jabari Parker - MIL - 25 GP, 25 starts, 29.5 MPG (currently injured)


3. Joel Embiid - PHI - yet to see game action (injury)


4. Aaron Gordon - ORL - 11 GP, 0 starts, 15 MPG (currently injured)


5. Dante Exum - UTA - 38 GP, 1 start, 18.6 MPG


6. Marcus Smart - BOS - 22 GP, 3 starts, 20.8 MPG


7. Julius Randle - LAL - 1 GP, 0 starts, 14 MPG (currently injured)


8. Nik Stauskas - SAC - 37 GP, 0 starts, 14 MPG


9. Noah Vonleh - CHA - 7 GP, 0 starts, 7.6 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


10. Elfrid Payton - ORL - 40 GP, 21 starts, 26 MPG


11. Doug McDermott - CHI - 17 GP, 0 starts, 11.6 MPG (currently injured)


12. Dario Saric - PHI - yet to see game action (Europe)


13. Zach Lavine - MIN - 33 GP, 21 starts, 24.8 MPG


14. TJ Warren - PHX - 12 GP, 0 starts, 10.2 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


15. Adreian Payne - ATL - 1 GP, 0 starts, 13 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


16. Jusuf Nurkic - DEN - 25 GP, 2 starts, 14.1 MPG


17. James Young - BOS - 8 GP, 0 starts, 6 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


18. Tyler Ennis - PHX - 7 GP, 0 starts, 7.9 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


19. Gary Harris - DEN - 17 GP, 0 starts, 13.9 MPG


20. Bruno Caboclo - TOR - 3 GP, 0 starts, 5 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


21. Mitch McGary - OKC - 1 GP, 0 starts, 7 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


22. Jordan Adams - MEM - 9 GP, 0 starts, 8.1 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


23. Rodney Hood - UTA - 22 GP, 5 starts, 18.2 MPG


24. Shabazz Napier - MIA - 26 GP, 0 starts, 20.3 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


25. Clint Capela - HOU - 4 GP, 0 starts, 3 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


26. PJ Hairston - CHA - 27 GP, 2 starts, 15.1 MPG


27. Bogdan Bogdanovic - PHX - yet to see game action (Europe)


28. CJ Wilcox - LAC - 4 GP, 0 starts, 4.3 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


29. Josh Huestis - OKC - yet to see game action (NBDL)


30. Kyle Anderson - SA - 25 GP, 8 starts, 13.4 MPG (spent time in NBDL)


So where does Noah fit into all this?


-13 out of 30 draftees have spent time in the D League this year


-21 out of 30 draftees have yet to start in an NBA game, and of those that have started, only 4 out of the 9 have started double digit games.


All of this is to say that it's very rare to see NBA first rounders get a ton of minutes, especially on teams that have veterans and playoff aspirations as the Hornets do, despite the bad start. Compound that with the fact that Vonleh missed preseason and is a project player, and his lack of PT should be expected. Also remember last season there was a frustration amongst fans because Cody wasn't getting minutes over McBob, and Cody has turned out to be an okay starter this season, albeit (hopefully) with more room to improve.


On the flipside, if you're giving rookies a lot of minutes, as Minnesota is, that generally signals that you're going to have a tough rebuilding season, and Minny only has FIVE wins. I need not remind you all what happened when rookie Kemba and rookie Bismack got a ton of minutes...


On another note, look at PJ's minutes. He has carved out a nice bench role on the team and even started, which is impressive considering how full the depth chart is on the wings for the Hornets. He is out there because he has NBA size and professional experience already and looks like he belongs out there, even though his shot selection and defense still leave alot to be desired as he makes the transition into the big leagues.


tl;dr: It's too early to call Noah a bust, Noah isn't ready for big minutes, and "redshirting" rookies is a common practice in the NBA.

Kemba and Hornets agree to 4 years/$48 million extension

28 October 2014 - 06:31 PM

Can't embed tweets but Marc Stein tweeted it just moments ago.

Love it. Will only look better with the TV deal in place and gives us an expiring that can be moved if we want to pursue Steph.

I believe Kyle Lowry got the same deal from the Raptors.