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Member Since 24 Nov 2008
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#2062573 If the new GM keeps Ron Rivera...

Posted by rayzor on 26 December 2012 - 10:20 AM

I'm all for Rivera staying especially if he get's to 7-9. If he get's fired, I would go with this combo...

GM: Tom Gamble
HC: Mike McCoy
OC: Norv Turner (retain Scott and let them work together)
DC: Winston Moss

if mike mccoy becomes head coach i stop being a panthers fan and i'm not blowing steam. i seriously don't know why people are on this guys bandwagon or why there is even one at all.

people have given that clown too much credit for what has happened in denver. i can't for the life of me see why he would be on anyone's radar for a HC gig. the guy's made a career of just sitting back and letting people do stuff. when he was mcD's OC, all he had to do was watch. when he was forced to start The Golden Calf of Bristol, all he had to do was run just a handful of plays and watch The Golden Calf of Bristol do his thing. and now he's got peyton manning for a QB? really? what does an OC have to do?

i find nothing in mccoy's job history that shouts leader or innovator or top dog. hiring him would be essentially throwing your hands in the air and saying, "i just want a good guy. i don't care what he can do."

#2057877 Yet another Chip Kelly source/rumor

Posted by rayzor on 22 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

That's what I think too. And again, it's open to debate as to whether that is a good thing or not.

I have a lot of respect for you and many of the posters that have been pushing Kelly. I'm just not convinced that is the way to go.

The last 5 or 6 games we've played have demonstrated that our offense can be very effective using a more "conservative" scheme. Lot's of 2 TE, max protect, play action passing and power running, with a dose of read option and spread formations. We know this works. Why wouldn't we want to hire someone that runs this type scheme? It certainly wouldn't be because we can't score enough points, as this offense has been very explosive once we changed up game planning. And it comes with the added benefit of ball control, and that is still important in the NFL.

Many on here talk about Kelly's flexibility, and that he can adapt his offense to the players and the league, and that may be true. But you are asking us to take a leap of faith because we know what kind of offense we've seen Kelly run historically. That's a leap I'm just not ready to take yet.

the thing is that aside from the tempo, there's really nothing all that "liberal" or whatever about what he does.

it's a lot of max protect, 2TE, play action, and power running. and it is a ball control, not in that they keep the ball for 30 minutes or whatever because they score fast, but it's not all that risky at all. when they get the ball, they score. it's trying to control the score rather than the clock.

when people say they know what kind of offense he runs and then say it's just a read option offense, i don't think they've actually done a lot of research into what they actually do. there is read option, but it's really not the big deal that people make it out to be. we may not run it now, but i think a lot of it has to do with chud calling the plays and not really having the best OL for much of anything right now.

it's really not that different than what we do now aside from the pace and the formations and, well, having someone that's more opportunistic than chud. it's running to set up the pass. again, i don't know what's so crazy about that.

but what really gets me about what we do now is that i don't trust rivera's game planning or management. i think kelly is much better at game management. he's a lot more cut throat. i also like the way kelly runs his team and his practices. i think the team would be a lot more practiced and prepared and disciplined with kelly.

people make far too big an issue about the read option. it's not the bugaboo people make it out to be.

#2056958 Yet another Chip Kelly source/rumor

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 06:40 PM

Cam has been choosing the wrong reads also, but our line isn't built for the read option. If you look at Gross out there, he looks gross and lost at times. He has a hard time identifying the right blocks when defenses crash the line. Think about it, our vets have been in the league at least 5 years and going back to college schemes is like teaching them all over again. If we want to run the read option we will need to go young.

agreed on the Oline.

that is a huge reason for the lack of success. a lack of experience with it. a lack of reps.

but then this Oline isn't really good for much this year anyway. it's been beat up and when it wasn't, it was being just a typical panther Oline that takes half a season to get their act together.

i can guarantee you that wouldn't be the case if kelly were here.

#2056903 Julio Jones says Falcons were bored against the Panthers, so they lost.

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

i guess he wouldn't be a true ATL WR unless he wasn't a talented moron.

#2056902 Offensive Minds to Bring In

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 05:51 PM

isnt air coryell and the west coast pretty much the same thing.


in that they are both types of offense? yes they are similar.

WCO depends on dumping the ball off quickly and the bulk of the work is focused on passes shorter than 20 yards and it's more of an east/west rather than north and south action. it is a dink and dunk offense.

coryell is more of a north south type offense in that it depends on the deep pass and more of a power run game.

also, the language between the two is different. WCO is a lot more complicated and wordier.

coryell is more set up to take advantage of new passing rules than the WCO.

quite a bit of difference.

#2056861 Yet another Chip Kelly source/rumor

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 05:11 PM

OK. You just sold me. I'm on board Rayzor's Chip Kelly bandwagon, defense force, or whatever.

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#2056858 Yet another Chip Kelly source/rumor

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 05:09 PM

Kelly's offense as is will not work in the NFL. We've personally seen it shut down many times this season. And you definitely couldn't win a championship with it. It's just too gimmicky! There's nothing solid about it. I would hate to see Cam subjected to such an offense, it's bad enough watching him play in this offense for much of the season. The read option is a nice change up, but it's useless as a main course meal.

sorry...but it is working. teams are using the read option successfully. they are using his no huddle offense.

at the risk of banging my head against the wall, i'm going to try and educate you on his offense.

it's based on the run setting up the pass. it's a run first offense that's only different than traditional run first offenses in that it gives the defense one runner to try and stop rather than two. 4 legs are better than two. the defense has to choose between who they want to stop.

when we ran the ball incredibly well in '08 defenses had to stack the box to stop it, but the rarely could. they had to flat out overload the box. that is what happens with chud's offense, only there's two possible runners instead of one.

when you have defenses overloading the box, guess what's going to happen? the defense is likely going to be able to stop it. but guess what else happens? it leaves them vulnerable to other things. that is what kelly's offense is trying to do. they use the read option...a running play/formation to set up other things. it's built expecting the defense to throw everything they can to stop it and make them keep working on it while you use more traditional concepts like play action, bubble screens, etc. to exploit their vulnerabilities. and they do that all game long, only they do that at such a pace defenses have no chance to set themselves up or prepare themselves or make substitutions.

and defenses will never know what it is that they are going to do because more often than not kelly's offense runs it out of the same formations. everything they do in their playbook starts out from one of just a handful of formations so it's easy to disguise their intents and it's easy for the players to get set up for the next play. all they have to know is what the next play is and it only takes one or two words from the QB to know it.

it's fast. it's efficient. it's deceptive. and it's effective.

it's a bridge offense between the spread and more traditional concepts and it will work. it has worked against some of the best defensive minds in the NFL and more and more offenses in the NFL are looking at it as a model.

so explain to me why the read option wouldn't work and quit throwing out that "gimmicky" stuff. when someone throws that out and calls it just another read option offense, it does nothing more than tell me that they haven't done much researching to see what they actually do.

#2056436 Yet another Chip Kelly source/rumor

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 10:29 AM

More gimmick offense

gimmick nothing.

it's a run heavy offense in which the running game (which forces the defense to have to choose between two possible runners instead of one) sets up the passing game and forces the defense to choose between trying to overload the box to stop the run game or protect themselves against play action, screens, bootlegs, or the triple option or any of a myriad of other plays taking advantage of the holes they leave open.

and they do this giving the defense no time to adjust, get set up, disguise what they are going to do, or make substitutions.

not sure where the gimmick is.

#2056387 Did we need to have this sort of season?

Posted by rayzor on 21 December 2012 - 09:41 AM

if....and this whole thing is a stretch.... but if the team needed another losing season to get its crap together then its just as possible it hired the wrong coach.

i think its more likely that unless this team can get someone to rally the troops before they've lost out on a shot at the playoffs, they will continue to do so.

i see a coaching staff reluctant to change what needs to be done to make this team win until its too late. they know how to adapt, they just pull the trigger too late.

if rivera comes back next year, he and the coaching staff needs to be on a short leash. winning season or hes gone. two winning seasons in a row or hrs gone. i would even say that if they start off the season with two losses in a row or head into the bye with a losing record, he's gone.

losing can not be accepted anymore and we have to quit justifying or rationalizing it..
no more lipstick on a turd or whatever.

the reason we have a losing culture was because 1) the goal was to be just better than average, not great or the best which led to 2) losses being acceptable . which led to 3)losing being ok because theres always next week which is leading to 4) losing seasons being ok because theres always next year.

i'm tired of losing being the status quo and i dont see rivera as being the guy to turn it around. he certainly hasnt done anything to prove he can or that the new GM shouldn't go out and find his guy who can.

#2053173 Panthers Locker Room Celebration After Game

Posted by rayzor on 18 December 2012 - 07:56 PM

I have always supported Rivera and will continue to do so. I am willing to bet my life that if he is back next season, we will have a winning season.

guy needs to be on an incredibly short leash for the next couple years.

back to back winning seasons or he's gone.

and that's if he can convince the new GM to not go out and find someone that can do more than almost win.

#2053153 A little Raider Memory...

Posted by rayzor on 18 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

Ahhh I misses those old days when we were once a competitive team.

we're still competitive. almost every team we lost to we gave them a run for the money. if we had a staff that knew how to finish games consistently we might have been more than competitive, and by that i mean winning.

#2053049 PFF: Carolina @ San Diego Refocused

Posted by rayzor on 18 December 2012 - 06:02 PM

as an aside, i absolutely love what greg hardy has become. the whole john randle face paint thing adds a little flavor to the intensity he brings to the line for good measure

agreed and i admit to being a huge fan of the contacts. it's campy as anything, but i love it.

i love the rants. the whole package is great for the team, imo. brings a whole interesting element to a team that has been largely devoid of character for years in an interest to be nice and pleasant.

#2052958 Uh oh. Pat Y might just have dropped a bombshell. Get ready for Beane as GM

Posted by rayzor on 18 December 2012 - 04:48 PM

I understand your point that it would appear that hiring an insider would be just more of the same. But, that is not necessarily true. We have no idea whether Beane's views and Hurney's views were anything alike. Just because one worked for the other does not make this necessarily true.

I know nothing about Beane and a pretty limited understanding of what it really takes to be a good GM. Therefore, I will defer judgement to Acorsi, who was hired to do just that.

Now, if Acorsi makes a suggestion to go outside and JR goes against that suggestion, then we shoudl all be pissed. You hire an expert because you value their opinion.....you don't hire one to go against their opinion.

whether he's the best candidate or not (which i doubt) isn't really the most important thing.

i can't see how beane would be significantly better than ross or gettleman or gamble or some of the other names mentioned. what is important is 1) getting an upgrade and 2) assuring the fanbase and PSL holders that you acknowledge the deficiencies within your organization and you aren't going to continue down the same path and you aren't going to try and keep everything in house, that you are willing to go outside your own failing organization for help in rebuilding.

i just can't see hiring beane as being a sign that we are determined to make things right here.

right or wrong, perception matters. the only way you promote from within is if you have a successful organization to begin with.

it demonstrates a resistance to outside opinion and change, you miss out on what could be a much needed injection of superior management practices and talent...and especially fresh eyes and perspectives, it makes it easy to repeat failed management behavior. it's a sign that you accept your status quo.

organizations have to have an influx of talent and in this case, it's needed at the top with the GM. if there is no influx of outside talent, a danger that exists is, well, the organizational gene pool gets too small and when that happens recessive and non-beneficial traits within the org. become dominant.

i can see how this might work...maybe...but there are too many reasons why this would be a bad thing. there are too many things that can go wrong.

#2052381 Legit question. Mark Sanchez or Jimmy Clausen?

Posted by rayzor on 18 December 2012 - 09:39 AM

does it matter what QB doesn't get a jersey on game day?

#2052317 Paying Greg Hardy

Posted by rayzor on 18 December 2012 - 08:27 AM

keep his cage fairly clean and give him live chickens and pigs to chase down and eat (of course you quit feeding him on Wednesday so he's really hungry on game day) and he'll be happy.

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