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Game of Thrones - Season 8

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I see a lot of hate out there...  it's mostly unjustified...  I didn't "hate" season but it definitely isn't what i could have been.

When actors like Harrington say people can "go fug themselves" it riles me a little tbh...  he made a product and it's not immune to criticism.  It may be a little different if someone was criticizing his performance (but even that isn't immune to criticism either)...  but everyone is entitled to their opinion whether they like it or they didn't. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Darth Biscuit said:

I see a lot of hate out there...  it's mostly unjustified...  I didn't "hate" season but it definitely isn't what i could have been.

When actors like Harrington say people can "go fug themselves" it riles me a little tbh...  he made a product and it's not immune to criticism.  It may be a little different if someone was criticizing his performance (but even that isn't immune to criticism either)...  but everyone is entitled to their opinion whether they like it or they didn't. 

 

GOT had some great actors.  It sets the bar in terms of production for a TV show and it was shot beautifully.  Even the last season. Nothing really compares there. 

It was just rushed at the end.  Storytelling was bad at the end compared to the total body of work.  After the irritation of them rushing the end wears off....it will probably climb the rankings.  

Still an epic TV show.   It simply had the real potential to be the GOAT and probably should of been 

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Question for @Bronn or a book reader.  I’m debating about giving the books a go.  Little hesitant since it likely won’t be finished. 

Out of curiosity.  Where do the books leave off in terms of the WW threat? The Night King is just a TV show creation correct? Do the WW really have a presence in the books? Or is Winter just an ambiguous bad coming.  If the NK is just for TV I imagine defeating “Winter” is entirely different.  Probably calls on the prophecy more directly to be filled and less likely Arya??

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Well....... that was it. I'm sad it's over. 

It's still my favorite show and story of all time. Although the quality of the last two seasons has dipped overall the show still holds its ground. 

 

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1 hour ago, CRA said:

Question for @Bronn or a book reader.  I’m debating about giving the books a go.  Little hesitant since it likely won’t be finished. 

Out of curiosity.  Where do the books leave off in terms of the WW threat? The Night King is just a TV show creation correct? Do the WW really have a presence in the books? Or is Winter just an ambiguous bad coming 

Don't do it.. it will just break your heart when the last 2 books never come out.

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Seasons 1-6 were fantastic and when i rewatch i'll end it with Jon as king in the north. last season had some decent moments but the writing was fuging terrible, especially the finale.

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10 hours ago, PanthersBigD said:

The showrunners were given the reins to run the Star Wars franchise into the ground, so they rushed the ending of this series. This series was ten times better than any Star Wars project since ROTJ, and they squandered the opportunity to end it well. 

This reminds me of when Scorcese and Winter rushed the ending on Boardwalk Empire so that they could make that stupid show Vinyl, which was then cancelled during its first season. 

I have said to several people that part of me thinks the reason I am less pissed than others is that I have seen superior shows (namely Boardwalk Empire) suffer from rushed final seasons.

Big Love suffers a similar fate in its penultimate season and then they did not know how to end it and Deadwood got no finale (which they are hopefully about to remedy thirteen years later) while they dragged The Sopranos out to long.

Not everybody can end like Six Feet Under.  At least Game of Thrones ended most of their storylines in what I felt the appropriate way, even if if felt like most storylines  skipped a chapter.

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9 hours ago, Bronn said:

I hate to defend the writing, but here goes:

1. It does matter that he killed Dany. That was his purpose, ultimately, as bad as that purpose was. Dany had already flipped the switch to murdering innocent citizens as a means to an end. Jon's role the entire series has been honor and justice, and what better example of justice for all and mercy, unbiased, from Bran as his first act than to sentence the man raised as his own brother, the recently revealed rightful heir to the throne, and now a queen-slayer/kinslayer to banishment at the Wall, where the outcasts of society belong? Sansa could act as tough as she wanted, but as you clearly saw there were (somehow, surprisingly) plenty of Unsullied and Dothraki left. Grey Worm could have taken the city himself if he really wanted to.

2. See #1. The punishment was justice and full circle. The Wall wasn't rebuilt. You saw Castle Black. Only a part of the wall was knocked down, at Eastwatch By The Sea. For all we know it wasn't rebuilt there. I don't know why Tormund was there still, but one would expect they'd had ravens, etc. sent there, keeping them in the loop. After all, they have proven themselves as allies, and the Night's Watch doesn't really have the numbers there to man the castle anyway. For all we know, they were going out ranging to see what was left of the lands beyond the Wall. They also had the shot of the green growth, coming up through the snow. So, they look to be getting spring for the first time in a long time up that way. I'm assuming Jon will keep in touch of the comings and goings on up there.

Thank you.  I have had four different arguments about this in the last twenty-four hours.  

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8 hours ago, Cary Kollins said:

 

my two cents on this popular line of thinking:

 

Dany's intent was to "break the wheel", which to me is the never ending battle for the throne based on family bloodlines. Jon was the "true heir", but why was he? Because his great great grandfather murdered the prior families king? Ultimately Dany was successful in breaking the wheel with Jon's help. It was sloppy and rushed but I think it was a satisfying conclusion to that whole saga. Now future King's will be decided not by bloodline but by a vote from the Lords and what not.

Jon going up North wasn't to watch the wall. Tyrion knew the night's watch was no longer a thing. He duped the Unsullied into thinking he'd be practically imprisoned at the Wall, when in reality he's going to be free with the North folk. They even made an effort to show gross growing through the snow, signaling "Winter is over".

I think the last few seasons have major flaws for sure, but I think the writer's wrapped it up pretty damn well....and I think a rewatch of the entire series will paint these final seasons in a better light.

Well said.  The final two seasons were rushed as hell...but the actual endings to each storyline made sense (except for Brienne being with Bran instead of Sansa).

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14 hours ago, PurityControl said:

I don't have a problem with the ending, except they could of drawn it out a little more maybe another season or a few more episodes so the events carried more weight emotionally, everything felt hollow this season.

 

The season was certainly hurried and it crossed my mind that everyone was ready to move on.  They have been doing this grueling show for 9 years.  Gotta be a grind after that long.

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20 hours ago, CRA said:

The more I reflect on it, the more the Jon Snow ending becomes an abomination.  

1.  Does it really matter that he killed Dany.   Even if he didn't want the throne what was even the point of the big Aegon Targaryen reveal ultimately?  He was ultimately the rightful heir to the throne over Dany.   So he killed the chick trying to swindle it from him.  I mean, yeah, he didn't want to rule but how does his bloodline not at least not get him off the hook from punishment.   So he has to be punished because he killed someone that took the throne by force? Someone essentially fraudulently jumping his place?   How does that not even get brought up by all the folks discussing Jon's punishment with the all powerful Grey Worm?  I mean seriously.  

2.  Then the punishment is nonsense.  Take the black and go serve your time at the Wall?  There is no Night's Watch.  Night King also destroyed the wall which magically has been rebuilt.   There is no functioning purpose for folks to be at the wall despite Tyrion trying to explain it all away saying they still needed a place to send naughty people.   And why the fug is Tormond and his folks chilling at Castle Black? essentially chilling there for months? instead of going exactly where they said they would be going which was back to the real North?  But I guess they just figured, nah, let's camp here at Castle Black in case Jon Snow happens to come back and then we will finally go back North. 

Probably already answered, but my .02

The Night's Watch sole purpose now is for a kind of "get out of jail" for political refugees that have all manner enemies and allies where a death penalty or royal appointment would be problematic for the establishment.

Tormund got word of Jon's arrival.  He had already been beyond the wall but came back for Jon to have him live with the free folk beyond the wall.. "the truth north".

The Aegon secret remained with Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, Brann and Sam.  Some because they knew of Jon's wishes.  Some because of an interest in maintaining power.  Some for expediency.  Yes, it would have cut the legs out from underneath anyone else's claim, but Tyrion wisely saw that the unsullied (who had a firm grip on the nuts of the city) wouldn't recognize a prior claim.  They only knew allegiance to the one that gained them their freedom.  The same for the iron born.  These two factions (along with the magically remaining Dothraki) would have been enough to plunge the continent into another long and protracted war.  The fastest way to peace and reconciliation was through how Tyrion laid it out.

It's not a Scooby-Doo or Mega-Happy ending, but it ins't the worst thing about how this series ended either.

I'm off to catch the remaining two shows of Chernobyl.

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13 hours ago, CRA said:

Question for @Bronn or a book reader.  I’m debating about giving the books a go.  Little hesitant since it likely won’t be finished. 

Out of curiosity.  Where do the books leave off in terms of the WW threat? The Night King is just a TV show creation correct? Do the WW really have a presence in the books? Or is Winter just an ambiguous bad coming.  If the NK is just for TV I imagine defeating “Winter” is entirely different.  Probably calls on the prophecy more directly to be filled and less likely Arya??

I don't want to spoil it really, but the WWs aren't nearly the threat in the books that they were on the show, so far.

The show stayed pretty loyal to a point. The prologue from S1E1 of the show is pretty much straight from the books. The attack on the Night's Watch at the Fist of the First Men was pretty much straight out of the books. The whole purpose of the Wildlings, thus far in the books, is that they are trying to get south to escape The Others (pretty much the WWs.) Sam indeed kills an Other, similar to how he does it in the show. Gilly does refer to the Others as "Craster's Sons," which the show kind of alluded to as well. 

The Others followed the Wildlings southwards towards the wall, but didn't attack them, IIRC. That is kinda where they stopped talking about them in the books. We just know they are out there, and that they are pursuing the Wildlings, who are heading south.

I'm guessing Jon will play a bigger part in the WW threat in the books. I don't know if they'll have a leader, but I'm guessing the show created it based on GRRM's end-game discussions.

Basically, at this point, they are a/the supernatural spoke on the wheel of the bigger picture.

I would equate them in the books to be almost on par with Arya's Faceless men training at this point. And, I kind of think they may be related.

I expect prophecy/religion to play a much bigger role in the end-game in the books than it did in the show.

In the books, it is even theorized that the High Sparrow might be none other than Howland Reed, Jojen and Meera's dad and Ned's good buddy, and that he's using religion to infiltrate and undermine leadership in King's Landing.

I would 100% recommend the books to anyone that liked the show. The pilot episode of the show is what made me go out and buy the books, and I flew through the first four (after not having read any books at all since high school) in time for the 5th book to come out, which was like 3 months. The books are way more in depth (to a fault, according to some (not me)) and that is where a lot of theory originates. Every small detail can have importance, and GRRM is a master at foreshadowing and hiding things in there.

Edited by Bronn
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13 hours ago, CRA said:

Question for @Bronn or a book reader.  I’m debating about giving the books a go.  Little hesitant since it likely won’t be finished. 

Out of curiosity.  Where do the books leave off in terms of the WW threat? The Night King is just a TV show creation correct? Do the WW really have a presence in the books? Or is Winter just an ambiguous bad coming.  If the NK is just for TV I imagine defeating “Winter” is entirely different.  Probably calls on the prophecy more directly to be filled and less likely Arya??

I'm reading the first book now (about halfway through) and am enjoying it. I've been reading a chapter or two a day because the first part is kind of a slog, but it is starting to pick up. 

A buddy of mine says that it really starts to pick up around the 3/4 mark of the first and just continues from there. 

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