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Mr. Scot

Kyle Bailey suggests defense going 3-4 is an option

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8 minutes ago, TN05 said:

Pep is also naturally athletic enough to do the pass coverage job the 3-4 sometimes requires OLBs do.

Exactly.. I haven't seen that kind of athleticism out of Addison.. He is a quick pass rusher but he isn't quick nor is he good at dropping back and playing man or zone coverage in the passing game(which is half your job as a 3/4 olb)..

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So to see if there is any credence to this 3-4 theory I decided to take a look at the type of players that we brought in as future contracts recently. 

DT Woodrow Hamilton. 6’3” 315. Not necessarily the weight you are looking for in a NT. But that’s what he plays in a 3-4. 

 

 

Elijiah Qualls. 6’1” DT/NT. From brief tape he seems to possibly have some flexibility along a 3-4 line at NT and DE.  He really lack in his pass rushing ability at 3-4 DE though.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2706739-elijah-qualls-nfl-draft-2017-scouting-report-for-philadelphia-eagles-pick.amp.htm

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/elijah-qualls?id=2557981

Antwione Williams  LB, 6’3” 247lbs  he played SLB with the Lions.  Not sure his fit in a 3-4.  but pure size wise he is not that different from Marquis Haynes  at 6’2” 235.  

Who knows what direction the panthers are leaning for defense but the players added don’t rule out a 3-4 from what I see.  

 

 

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9 hours ago, Sub Zero said:

If I give you KK.. With real  faults like his drop in production this season, his age, and the fact he never played the position before.. That still only 3 players in a front 7 that still needs 12 to 13 more players (starters and depth) to make this even a viable option. .. I'm just looking at reality..

My point wasn’t in line with the thread premise. I’m saying a multiple front 4-3 Base is the modern defense to run, I.E. LAC and CHI. Even NE is doing it a bit these days.

We’ve never really run that hybrid of a defense, we run a ton of nickel and standard 4-3 and really don’t have the EDGE types. 

I see this whole black and white 4-3 or 3-4 thing when the most successful teams really aren’t doing either right now. That’s why the people chiming in with the 3-4 jokes look rather silly as if they don’t see how the landscape is these days. 

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I think it’s going to be more of a mix of 3-4/4-3 than going straight 3-4. We know Ron is pretty good at both so I wouldn’t be surprised.

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5 minutes ago, saX man said:

My point wasn’t in line with the thread premise. I’m saying a multiple front 4-3 Base is the modern defense to run, I.E. LAC and CHI. Even NE is doing it a bit these days.

We’ve never really run that hybrid of a defense, we run a ton of nickel and standard 4-3 and really don’t have the EDGE types. 

I see this whole black and white 4-3 or 3-4 thing when the most successful teams really aren’t doing either right now. That’s why the people chiming in with the 3-4 jokes look rather silly as if they don’t see how the landscape is these days. 

I can see a hybrid system if they go get the talent.. Don't stick older players in new positions and expect them to do the job.  Go get players young enough and athletic enough to make this work..   Go after the Clowney, Clark, Flowers, Grady and other young talent .. 

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To me it makes sense because we had 2 really talented linebackers in our 4-3 scheme and we still struggled to stop good offenses. We aren't going to find another TD.

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59 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Dismissive or Just being real about the situation.. 

Let's just agree to disagree.. I think we are lacking more talent for that defense than in other seasons .. You don't cool.. I only see 2 maybe 3 players who could now.. When other season I thought we had 5 to 6 players who could make the transition.. 

Example 2013 ..

CJ, Hardy, Star, Luke, TD, and Kk all were young enough and better equipped to make that change.. And That's your Dline and 3 LB spots right there.. Now I only see 1 MLB and one NT for a 3/4 on this roster.. I could be wrong but that's just my opinion..

Poe, KK and Luke for sure can. I think Shaq can be the other ILB. Haynes can be one of the OLB even if it's a backup or situational pass rush role. I believe Horton can be the other DE. 

 

So we have 2 DE, 1 DT, 2 ILB and 1 definite OLB for a 3-4. now the team being able to pull it off means believing that Addison can play OLB and the team can get another starter in the draft. Now all that's left is depth which can be filled by late draft picks, PFA and free agents. 

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16 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Poe, KK and Luke for sure can. I think Shaq can be the other ILB. Haynes can be one of the OLB even if it's a backup or situational pass rush role. I believe Horton can be the other DE. 

 

So we have 2 DE, 1 DT, 2 ILB and 1 definite OLB for a 3-4. now the team being able to pull it off means believing that Addison can play OLB and the team can get another starter in the draft. Now all that's left is depth which can be filled by late draft picks, PFA and free agents. 

That's your opinion thoe.. And your opinion isn't backed up with facts..

Examples..

Poe has played 3/4 NT before and Luke has the size, intelligent, and athletic ability to be a 3/4 ilb.. That's 2.. The rest are just guessing and hoping. KK has never played in a 3/4 , Shaq doesn't have the size of a 3/4 Ilb nor has he ever played in a 3/4 and Hayes has the size but we have no if clue if he has the athletic ability or intelligence to be a 3/4 olb ..because again he has never played in that defense..Horton is a Free agent .   So you want to sign him back to play in a defense he has never played before??? THINK ABOUT THAT.. 2 guys are for sure locks.  But the rest of your opinion is guessing with no facts..

So imo we need atleast 3 OlB 2 or 3 DE's and a backup NT.. Not to mention we still need secondary help as well... And we still haven't spent anything to help the oline or offense in general..

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I’d like to see it only because this franchise is so resistant to any kind of change. I think we are missing the same amount of pieces in a 3-4 that we are in a 4-3 so who gives a fug. Try something new.

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6 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

I’d like to see it only because this franchise is so resistant to any kind of change. I think we are missing the same amount of pieces in a 3-4 that we are in a 4-3 so who gives a fug. Try something new.

Really??

You bring in 2 DE (draft FA) .. Resign Reid and bring in a FS and a Nickel back.. Your defense isn't that bad. That's 4 players..

3 Olb, 2 DE, 1 Ilb and 1 Nt (backup) now add in the secondary needs.. that's atleast 9 to 11 new players needing to be added..

4 compare to 10 how is that the same??

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Fellas when thinking about this do me a favour .  Go look at the other 3/4 teams in the league. 

Look for..

Avg. Size and weight, of the position groups..

Then combine times of the agility, speed, strength and explosive drills (the 40, cone drills, broad and vertical jumps, weights).  Also did they work in a few groups like (DE, LB)

Finally what they played in college and their production history.  

Than compare that to the players on the roster??

That makes this exercise easier to form a opinion on..

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35 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

That's your opinion thoe.. And your opinion isn't backed up with facts..

Examples..

Poe has played 3/4 NT before and Luke has the size, intelligent, and athletic ability to be a 3/4 ilb.. That's 2.. The rest are just guessing and hoping. KK has never played in a 3/4 , Shaq doesn't have the size of a 3/4 Ilb nor has he ever played in a 3/4 and Hayes has the size but we have no if clue if he has the athletic ability or intelligence to be a 3/4 olb ..because again he has never played in that defense..Horton is a Free agent .   So you want to sign him back to play in a defense he has never played before??? THINK ABOUT THAT.. 2 guys are for sure locks.  But the rest of your opinion is guessing with no facts..

So imo we need atleast 3 OlB 2 or 3 DE's and a backup NT.. Not to mention we still need secondary help as well... And we still haven't spent anything to help the oline or offense in general..

the draft for 3-4 olb is guessing for the most part. Most of the time your taking undersized hand in the dirt college DE's and moving them to 3-4 OLB or bigger DE's and moving them to 3-4 DE. It's not necessarily about just size, some of the Steelers best LB's over the last 10 years weren't that big. It's skillset as well. 

 

KK already lines up all over the field for the panthers and has in the past played 3-4 end for the Panthers in subsets. Shaq has the skillset to play inside and his pro comparison was Bowman an 3-4 ILB. 

 

Horton would come cheap and has the skillset and size to play 3-4 DE. At worst hes quality depth at the position. 

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Poe- NT 

KK- DT

Luke and Shaq- ILB

Thats your solid core

 

The rumor why we're going to this is to generate pressure, something we were among the bottom of the league at this year.  So your focus is on that front 7, so thatll be your focus.  Sadly that means the FS spot will not be a big splash FA or draft pick.  SS Reid comes back.

 

Now to add pieces to the front 7.

 

First off, trade Addison. 

He doesnt fit the scheme.  Removing his contract from us Also helps. 

Potential partner. Bills.  No not because the typical connection.  They need a 4-3 DE.  Shaq Lawson, they picked up his 5th option.  He has been a Big disappointment there and they think he could be on the move.  Shaq Lawson coming out, scouts seemed to think he would be better as a 3-4 OLB 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

If he doesnt work out, he is off the books the next year.

 

 

Big FA- Anthony Barr. He is listed as a 4-3 LB as he plays that in Minnesota and has been a beast.  In college he was more of a 3-4 OLB recording 24 sacks his last 2 seasons.  He has it all including the versatility to drop in coverage if needed.

 

Draft:

1st: Brian Burns

2nd: Zach Allen- beast 3-4 DE out of BC

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6 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

the draft for 3-4 olb is guessing for the most part. Most of the time your taking undersized hand in the dirt college DE's and moving them to 3-4 OLB or bigger DE's and moving them to 3-4 DE. It's not necessarily about just size, some of the Steelers best LB's over the last 10 years weren't that big. It's skillset as well. 

 

KK already lines up all over the field for the panthers and has in the past played 3-4 end for the Panthers in subsets. Shaq has the skillset to play inside and his pro comparison was Bowman an 3-4 ILB. 

 

Horton would come cheap and has the skillset and size to play 3-4 DE. At worst hes quality depth at the position. 

And the team hasn't done that guessing.. They have been getting guys that fit the 43.  So looking at the roster now "Realistically" they have alot of nickel 43 parts..

There is a difference from lining up 5 or 6 snaps  a game and playing a position full time you've never played before.  And again I know you think it's simple to change the mind set of a 43 3tech to a 34 De but it is not. It's a different set of jobs and skill used and Kk is 31 yearsF old.. And Bowman was 2 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Shaq when playing in the 3/4.. Not to mention the fact he played LB his whole life.. And Shaq was a safety/lb tweener .. Reality to play Ilb in the 3/4 and hold up you want a player around 6'1 to 6'3 in height and 250 to 260lb .. To handle the beating on the inside..

Finally you want to resign (cheap or not) a player who has never played a defense before... because you're guessing he can do it?? Really??

Not to mention Horton isn't a young player anymore.  Why would you do this??

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