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Mr. Scot

Kyle Bailey suggests defense going 3-4 is an option

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59 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Dismissive or Just being real about the situation.. 

Let's just agree to disagree.. I think we are lacking more talent for that defense than in other seasons .. You don't cool.. I only see 2 maybe 3 players who could now.. When other season I thought we had 5 to 6 players who could make the transition.. 

Example 2013 ..

CJ, Hardy, Star, Luke, TD, and Kk all were young enough and better equipped to make that change.. And That's your Dline and 3 LB spots right there.. Now I only see 1 MLB and one NT for a 3/4 on this roster.. I could be wrong but that's just my opinion..

Poe, KK and Luke for sure can. I think Shaq can be the other ILB. Haynes can be one of the OLB even if it's a backup or situational pass rush role. I believe Horton can be the other DE. 

 

So we have 2 DE, 1 DT, 2 ILB and 1 definite OLB for a 3-4. now the team being able to pull it off means believing that Addison can play OLB and the team can get another starter in the draft. Now all that's left is depth which can be filled by late draft picks, PFA and free agents. 

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16 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Poe, KK and Luke for sure can. I think Shaq can be the other ILB. Haynes can be one of the OLB even if it's a backup or situational pass rush role. I believe Horton can be the other DE. 

 

So we have 2 DE, 1 DT, 2 ILB and 1 definite OLB for a 3-4. now the team being able to pull it off means believing that Addison can play OLB and the team can get another starter in the draft. Now all that's left is depth which can be filled by late draft picks, PFA and free agents. 

That's your opinion thoe.. And your opinion isn't backed up with facts..

Examples..

Poe has played 3/4 NT before and Luke has the size, intelligent, and athletic ability to be a 3/4 ilb.. That's 2.. The rest are just guessing and hoping. KK has never played in a 3/4 , Shaq doesn't have the size of a 3/4 Ilb nor has he ever played in a 3/4 and Hayes has the size but we have no if clue if he has the athletic ability or intelligence to be a 3/4 olb ..because again he has never played in that defense..Horton is a Free agent .   So you want to sign him back to play in a defense he has never played before??? THINK ABOUT THAT.. 2 guys are for sure locks.  But the rest of your opinion is guessing with no facts..

So imo we need atleast 3 OlB 2 or 3 DE's and a backup NT.. Not to mention we still need secondary help as well... And we still haven't spent anything to help the oline or offense in general..

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I’d like to see it only because this franchise is so resistant to any kind of change. I think we are missing the same amount of pieces in a 3-4 that we are in a 4-3 so who gives a fug. Try something new.

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6 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

I’d like to see it only because this franchise is so resistant to any kind of change. I think we are missing the same amount of pieces in a 3-4 that we are in a 4-3 so who gives a fug. Try something new.

Really??

You bring in 2 DE (draft FA) .. Resign Reid and bring in a FS and a Nickel back.. Your defense isn't that bad. That's 4 players..

3 Olb, 2 DE, 1 Ilb and 1 Nt (backup) now add in the secondary needs.. that's atleast 9 to 11 new players needing to be added..

4 compare to 10 how is that the same??

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Fellas when thinking about this do me a favour .  Go look at the other 3/4 teams in the league. 

Look for..

Avg. Size and weight, of the position groups..

Then combine times of the agility, speed, strength and explosive drills (the 40, cone drills, broad and vertical jumps, weights).  Also did they work in a few groups like (DE, LB)

Finally what they played in college and their production history.  

Than compare that to the players on the roster??

That makes this exercise easier to form a opinion on..

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35 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

That's your opinion thoe.. And your opinion isn't backed up with facts..

Examples..

Poe has played 3/4 NT before and Luke has the size, intelligent, and athletic ability to be a 3/4 ilb.. That's 2.. The rest are just guessing and hoping. KK has never played in a 3/4 , Shaq doesn't have the size of a 3/4 Ilb nor has he ever played in a 3/4 and Hayes has the size but we have no if clue if he has the athletic ability or intelligence to be a 3/4 olb ..because again he has never played in that defense..Horton is a Free agent .   So you want to sign him back to play in a defense he has never played before??? THINK ABOUT THAT.. 2 guys are for sure locks.  But the rest of your opinion is guessing with no facts..

So imo we need atleast 3 OlB 2 or 3 DE's and a backup NT.. Not to mention we still need secondary help as well... And we still haven't spent anything to help the oline or offense in general..

the draft for 3-4 olb is guessing for the most part. Most of the time your taking undersized hand in the dirt college DE's and moving them to 3-4 OLB or bigger DE's and moving them to 3-4 DE. It's not necessarily about just size, some of the Steelers best LB's over the last 10 years weren't that big. It's skillset as well. 

 

KK already lines up all over the field for the panthers and has in the past played 3-4 end for the Panthers in subsets. Shaq has the skillset to play inside and his pro comparison was Bowman an 3-4 ILB. 

 

Horton would come cheap and has the skillset and size to play 3-4 DE. At worst hes quality depth at the position. 

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Poe- NT 

KK- DT

Luke and Shaq- ILB

Thats your solid core

 

The rumor why we're going to this is to generate pressure, something we were among the bottom of the league at this year.  So your focus is on that front 7, so thatll be your focus.  Sadly that means the FS spot will not be a big splash FA or draft pick.  SS Reid comes back.

 

Now to add pieces to the front 7.

 

First off, trade Addison. 

He doesnt fit the scheme.  Removing his contract from us Also helps. 

Potential partner. Bills.  No not because the typical connection.  They need a 4-3 DE.  Shaq Lawson, they picked up his 5th option.  He has been a Big disappointment there and they think he could be on the move.  Shaq Lawson coming out, scouts seemed to think he would be better as a 3-4 OLB 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

If he doesnt work out, he is off the books the next year.

 

 

Big FA- Anthony Barr. He is listed as a 4-3 LB as he plays that in Minnesota and has been a beast.  In college he was more of a 3-4 OLB recording 24 sacks his last 2 seasons.  He has it all including the versatility to drop in coverage if needed.

 

Draft:

1st: Brian Burns

2nd: Zach Allen- beast 3-4 DE out of BC

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6 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

the draft for 3-4 olb is guessing for the most part. Most of the time your taking undersized hand in the dirt college DE's and moving them to 3-4 OLB or bigger DE's and moving them to 3-4 DE. It's not necessarily about just size, some of the Steelers best LB's over the last 10 years weren't that big. It's skillset as well. 

 

KK already lines up all over the field for the panthers and has in the past played 3-4 end for the Panthers in subsets. Shaq has the skillset to play inside and his pro comparison was Bowman an 3-4 ILB. 

 

Horton would come cheap and has the skillset and size to play 3-4 DE. At worst hes quality depth at the position. 

And the team hasn't done that guessing.. They have been getting guys that fit the 43.  So looking at the roster now "Realistically" they have alot of nickel 43 parts..

There is a difference from lining up 5 or 6 snaps  a game and playing a position full time you've never played before.  And again I know you think it's simple to change the mind set of a 43 3tech to a 34 De but it is not. It's a different set of jobs and skill used and Kk is 31 yearsF old.. And Bowman was 2 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than Shaq when playing in the 3/4.. Not to mention the fact he played LB his whole life.. And Shaq was a safety/lb tweener .. Reality to play Ilb in the 3/4 and hold up you want a player around 6'1 to 6'3 in height and 250 to 260lb .. To handle the beating on the inside..

Finally you want to resign (cheap or not) a player who has never played a defense before... because you're guessing he can do it?? Really??

Not to mention Horton isn't a young player anymore.  Why would you do this??

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I only read pages 1 and 9 because most of you suck.

Would a 3-4 make it easier to go into nickel or does it not matter?

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9 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Poe- NT 

KK- DT

Luke and Shaq- ILB

Thats your solid core

 

The rumor why we're going to this is to generate pressure, something we were among the bottom of the league at this year.  So your focus is on that front 7, so thatll be your focus.  Sadly that means the FS spot will not be a big splash FA or draft pick.  SS Reid comes back.

 

Now to add pieces to the front 7.

 

First off, trade Addison. 

He doesnt fit the scheme.  Removing his contract from us Also helps. 

Potential partner. Bills.  No not because the typical connection.  They need a 4-3 DE.  Shaq Lawson, they picked up his 5th option.  He has been a Big disappointment there and they think he could be on the move.  Shaq Lawson coming out, scouts seemed to think he would be better as a 3-4 OLB 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/shaq-lawson?id=2555252

If he doesnt work out, he is off the books the next year.

 

 

Big FA- Anthony Barr. He is listed as a 4-3 LB as he plays that in Minnesota and has been a beast.  In college he was more of a 3-4 OLB recording 24 sacks his last 2 seasons.  He has it all including the versatility to drop in coverage if needed.

 

Draft:

1st: Brian Burns

2nd: Zach Allen- beast 3-4 DE out of BC

Why not just pay the money for a top level pass rusher 43 DE.. (Clowney, Clark, Flowers,) draft one in this Dline heavy draft.. Keep what you have like addison.. And you have a solid Dline..

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5 minutes ago, Sub Zero said:

Why not just pay the money for a top level pass rusher 43 DE.. (Clowney, Clark, Flowers,) draft one in this Dline heavy draft.. Keep what you have like addison.. And you have a solid Dline..

Clowny cabt play the 3-4 OLB, they already experimented that with him in Houston his first 3 seasons. And he was dam near slapped the bust label.

They moved him back on the line as a 3-4 DE he started out slow, then the last year and a half blew up.

He will also cost about 5 mil more a year than a Barr. Would be foolish to throw that much money like that away to him there when we have so little cap

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2 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Clowny cabt play the 3-4 OLB, they already experimented that with him in Houston his first 3 seasons. And he was dam near slapped the bust label.

They moved him back on the line as a 3-4 DE he started out slow, then the last year and a half blew up.

He will also cost about 5 mil more a year than a Barr. Would be foolish to throw that much money like that away to him there when we have so little cap

Clowney got hurt his 1st few years .. Him being called a bust had nothing to do with position change.. 

He has Played DE in a 43 before and has the size and athletic ability to do so.. If you can get a freak talent like him you get him.. Not to mention the fact Clowney is the perfect player to have if you want to have a Hybrid defensive scheme..

I'm glad you like Barr but he has had down years as well and isn't imo great enough for me to pay alot of money for make a scheme change and only see the benefit 2 years down the road when he's 29.. Not smart..

I also name 2 other younger DE we can pay as well.. What about them..

Clark just had a 14 sack season after a 10 sack season the year before and is 25..

Flowers is perfect in a 3/4 and 43 hybrid defensive role since he has done it in New England.. And he is coming off a strong season..

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8 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Injuries did hit Clowney, but he was Terrible at OLB thats where he was getting the bust label.

He11 Vernon Butler has had injuries as well here like Clowney did but just like Clowney.  Thay wasnt used as the bust excuse.  He didnt show anything until he was back om the line.

 

Havnt looked into Clark

 

And yes Flowers is a good one, but prefer Barr

But again your making the least amount of moves with younger players to improve your defense.. You add 2 DE and some secondary help and tweak your scheme with better younger players.. Instead of changing your scheme having to get more players to play in it. Easier transition with a better chance of competing and filling more holes on the team my way..

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1 hour ago, Sub Zero said:

Fellas when thinking about this do me a favour .  Go look at the other 3/4 teams in the league. 

Look for..

Avg. Size and weight, of the position groups..

Then combine times of the agility, speed, strength and explosive drills (the 40, cone drills, broad and vertical jumps, weights).  Also did they work in a few groups like (DE, LB)

Finally what they played in college and their production history.  

Than compare that to the players on the roster??

That makes this exercise easier to form a opinion on..

I did all of this, Addison was projected as an OLB and did those drills in the combine. 

 

Thompson was looked at as a 3-4 ILB or WILL in the draft. Navarro is 6-0 and 240 lbs, pretty similar to Thompson. Shaq played ILB in college as well. 

Horton is 6-5 and 265, surprisingly he was listed at DE and OLB in draft profiles but with his skill set and size now he would project easily as a 3-4 end at worst for depth. 

KK is 29, not 31. he is probably the biggest reach I made at playing 3-4 end. Everything else I mentioned is based off draft profiles, skill sets..ext..

 

 

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5 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

I did all of this, Addison was projected as an OLB and did those drills in the combine. 

 

Thompson was looked at as a 3-4 ILB or WILL in the draft. Navarro is 6-0 and 240 lbs, pretty similar to Thompson. Shaq played ILB in college as well. 

Horton is 6-5 and 265, surprisingly he was listed at DE and OLB in draft profiles but with his skill set and size now he would project easily as a 3-4 end at worst for depth. 

KK is 29, not 31. he is probably the biggest reach I made at playing 3-4 end. Everything else I mentioned is based off draft profiles, skill sets..ext..

 

 

Addison OLB thing was 8 years ago before he spent 8 years gaining weight adding muscle losing flexibility.. Not to mention again that idea was based off draft scouts looking at his size and speed coming out of college and guessing what he might be able to do because again he wasn't playing olb in college.. His hands were always in the dirt.... Now he is 31 it's a different story now.. He doesn't have the time nor the youth to make that change..

Okay put Thompson in at ilb even thoe he still isn't big enough (as the avg. Ilb in a 3/4 ) and the only example you use to a player who (was still bigger than Shaq) got hurt and only had 2 to 3 years of great play at the position..

Again Horton is a FA.. You have to resign him to play in a defense he has never played before.. He isn't young.. So why do this because based on his size you think he can do it?? Instead of just getting a player who has..

 

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1 hour ago, Sub Zero said:

Why not just pay the money for a top level pass rusher 43 DE.. (Clowney, Clark, Flowers,) draft one in this Dline heavy draft.. Keep what you have like addison.. And you have a solid Dline..

That ^ makes a lot sense also.  Even if you don't get one of the top guys, I think there is a good chance they get tagged or resigned with their own team, you might could add someone like Brandon Graham.

Then for DT I really think we could probably find a day 1 starter in the second round.  This class is really deep at DT.

Graham - Butler - Draft Pick - Addison: doesn't sound too bad.  Upgrading just one or two spots on the D-line can help the other guys also.

Back ups could be

Horton/cheap FA - Butler - Love - Haynes

If Peppers comes back for one more year that is some more depth.  Also if they cut Poe they free up some cap to help offset singing a FA DE.

Maybe there is a good DE in the 1st and you grab him and he doesn't have to start, or maybe a corner or safety.  There are others way to improve the defense then just the D-line.

I'm not totally opposed to going 3-4, I just hope it doesn't force us to reach in the draft.

 

 

 

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