Jump to content
Carolina Huddle
  • Hey There!

    Please register to see fewer ads and a better viewing experience:100_Emoji_42x42:

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

panthers55

The evolution is in process

Recommended Posts

18 hours ago, Waldo said:

Hope and unicorns farts is an apt description of Ron's time as a HC.

But we went 15-1 when the players were doing the coaching and lost the SB and the other game when it was time for the coaching staff to step up and they produced a loss. Great coach tho...

What? You're implying that Rivera and staff did nothing that year. I'll need some solid proof of this. I think you may be going a little to the extreme here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


On 2/9/2019 at 8:06 PM, panthers55 said:

Rivera admits publically he needs to change and evolve which for a head coach is tantamount to saying he was the one at fault and was to blame for the poor finish. Sean McVay just fell on his sword and said he wasn't prepared for the Super Bowl. Everyone praises him for taking responsibility while they say Rivera never does. These same folks after Rivera does the same, come back to call the effort fake and insincere. For some it wouldn't matter what he said. I wish they would evolve and change as much as Rivera is trying to do the same. People who criticize Rivera for never changing have done that exact same thing. Locking into a way of thinking that they can't or don't want to change or examine as the information presents. Otherwise as a Panther fan you would be happy Ron gets it, and would want him to be wildly successful. After all we were 6-2 and moving along until Cam got hurt. It ended badly but there was much optimism moving forward. Can't we wait to bitch until around October if things suck. Do we really need to complain about Rivera  in every thread for the next 6 months?

Sean McVay just completed his second season as a head coach both were winning seasons. Rivera has been here 8 seasons and is 3-8 far as winning seasons. Not the same far as them both saying this now. Rivera saying he needs to evolve now looks worse on him rather than better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Sean McVay just completed his second season as a head coach both were winning seasons. Rivera has been here 8 seasons and is 3-8 far as winning seasons. Not the same far as them both saying this now. Rivera saying he needs to evolve now looks worse on him rather than better. 

Of course you can nitpick the differences but the reality is that Rivera was criticized for not taking responsibility and McVay was widely praised. When Rivera did essentially the same thing  the same critics downplayed the whole effort showing clear bias. Rivera saying it now simply means he did so publically. He may have been doing it in private for years. Just because you now hear about it doesn't mean he hasn't been doing it. He tends to keep things internal and not share everything like some coaches. Besides better late than never.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

“The biggest mistake, the biggest realization, I wish had come (earlier),” he said. “But we were playing well. We were winning. It’s not like we were getting blown out, other than in Pittsburgh.

“I missed it. That’s why I missed it. If, after Pittsburgh, Detroit had been a 17-point blowout, now all of the sudden the bells and whistles are going off.”

The fact he bases his decisions on score of the game makes me angry.  A good head coach would continue to look for ways to get better, including making personnel decisions to be where they need to be to compete in the playoffs. The score shouldn't matter.   It was obvious to all of us, even heading into the Pittsburgh game, that the Defense didn't look right, gave up too many big plays, and got lucky a few times earlier in the season.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, NAS said:

The fact he bases his decisions on score of the game makes me angry.  A good head coach would continue to look for ways to get better, including making personnel decisions to be where they need to be to compete in the playoffs. The score shouldn't matter.   It was obvious to all of us, even heading into the Pittsburgh game, that the Defense didn't look right, gave up too many big plays, and got lucky a few times earlier in the season.  

This is one of those areas where people have to have the right perspective.

Is Ron stupid? No.

Does he know defense? Yes.

And if it stopped there, we probably be okay.

Unfortunately, it doesn't.

As has been mentioned and explained many times, the standard by which you measure Rivera's intelligence isn't whether he knows more than us. It's how he does against the other 31 coaches in the league.

Put simply, Ron doesn't have to be smarter than you and me. He has to be smarter than Sean Payton, Mike Tomlin, Sean McVay, etc etc

History on that front doesn't exactly make for a positive outlook.

I'd love to see Rivera "evolve" and get better, but as many others have stated, I've heard this line before. The previous times it was uttered, it turned out to be an empty promise.

Show me something different or move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m glad to hear him saying this, but like several others I want to see it.  There are certain patterns to human behavior.  One is people do change.  A second is they change very slowly.  A third is they will usually revert back to their original pattern of behavior, successful or not.  And intelligence does not have a lot to do with those patterns.

Let’s not overlook the fact that Rivera’s old boss was a guy who didn’t exactly embrace or promote change.  His new boss may be that catalyst.  In my lifetime, I’ve seen a lot of people who were pretty good at their jobs/fields look like idiots because the person they reported to was an idiot and put strict boundaries on them.

A good part of management is staying out of the way and allowing people to be good, or creating an environment to foster them being good, only stepping in when things go awry.  That did not describe JR, IMO.

I don’t really know the answer of how much of Rivera’s reputation is Rivera and how much was Rivera being under JR.  I’m not convinced Belichick would have been Belichick under JR, although I am pretty certain BB would have simply moved on if he felt the management was an impediment to success. 

Mr. Scot, I am originally from Missouri, so I'll wait for the "show me" as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

I’m glad to hear him saying this, but like several others I want to see it.  There are certain patterns to human behavior.  One is people do change.  A second is they change very slowly.  A third is they will usually revert back to their original pattern of behavior, successful or not.  And intelligence does not have a lot to do with those patterns.

Let’s not overlook the fact that Rivera’s old boss was a guy who didn’t exactly embrace or promote change.  His new boss may be that catalyst.  In my lifetime, I’ve seen a lot of people who were pretty good at their jobs/fields look like idiots because the person they reported to was an idiot and put strict boundaries on them.

A good part of management is staying out of the way and allowing people to be good, or creating an environment to foster them being good, only stepping in when things go awry.  That did not describe JR, IMO.

I don’t really know the answer of how much of Rivera’s reputation is Rivera and how much was Rivera being under JR.  I’m not convinced Belichick would have been Belichick under JR, although I am pretty certain BB would have simply moved on if he felt the management was an impediment to success. 

Mr. Scot, I am originally from Missouri, so I'll wait for the "show me" as well.

Truth be told, we don't really know how good Rivera's new boss is yet.

Tepper's certainly done a lot of things that fans liked, but they weren't things that involved changing the football operations. As far as "football people" go, the current Panthers aren't really that different than they were under Jerry Richardson.

If one of your bigger moves is firing the assistant to the assistant - notably while covering the ass of the assistant who's bad at his job because he's your buddy - I'd say that falls a little short of "evolution".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Truth be told, we don't really know how good Rivera's new boss is yet.

Tepper's certainly done a lot of things that fans liked, but they weren't things that involved changing the football operations. As far as "football people" go, the current Panthers aren't really that different than they were under Jerry Richardson.

If one of your bigger moves is firing the assistant to the assistant - notably while covering the ass of the assistant who's bad at his job because he's your buddy - I'd say that falls a little short of "evolution".

Tepper's ownership philosophy is a great unknown.  In the worst case, it is roughly more of the same (without the groping, we hope).  In the best case, it is patience and trying to give the existing people a chance to be "all they can be" with the hope it is better than what they have been.  Somewhere in the middle is probably the truth, but that middle is as wide as the Grand Canyon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sgt Schultz said:

Tepper's ownership philosophy is a great unknown.  In the worst case, it is roughly more of the same (without the groping, we hope).  In the best case, it is patience and trying to give the existing people a chance to be "all they can be" with the hope it is better than what they have been.  Somewhere in the middle is probably the truth, but that middle is as wide as the Grand Canyon.

Agreed, and I think a lot of us are of the opinion that we've already seen "all that Ron and Marty can be" and it ain't that great.

I'd add this one thing: Having read Rivera's statements, I'm not that convinced he really wants to "evolve" so much as he just wants to save his job. If so, then you can expect a lot of cosmetic stuff while he basically remains the same guy behind the curtain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also agree to the fact that it doesn't sound like Rivera actually WANTS to change but just doing it because he has too which is also a red flag to me. He always speak of someone who has his mindset on a specific path and doesnt want to go a different direction unless its absolutely necessary or in other words if the failing gets to out of hand. Thats just simply not head coaching material to me in this league. Dude needs to go. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NAS said:

The fact he bases his decisions on score of the game makes me angry.  A good head coach would continue to look for ways to get better, including making personnel decisions to be where they need to be to compete in the playoffs. The score shouldn't matter.   It was obvious to all of us, even heading into the Pittsburgh game, that the Defense didn't look right, gave up too many big plays, and got lucky a few times earlier in the season.  

It is was any other position but quarterback it might have been different. Plus MRIs done during the season showed no damage. So it was much harder shutting down Cam versus someone else. It would have almost been better if he were hurt to the point he couldn't play. The way it turned out it was hard to shut him down mid season as it was pain but little to no damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

I also agree to the fact that it doesn't sound like Rivera actually WANTS to change but just doing it because he has too which is also a red flag to me. He always speak of someone who has his mindset on a specific path and doesnt want to go a different direction unless its absolutely necessary or in other words if the failing gets to out of hand. Thats just simply not head coaching material to me in this league. Dude needs to go. 

No one wants to change. Trust me my job is to get folks to change for a living and almost universally folks don't want to change unless it isn't working and they have few other options.

Few head coaches in the NFL want to change either and most don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Few head coaches in the NFL want to change either and most don't.

The good ones neither want nor do they not want change... they just do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/8/2019 at 2:48 PM, thefuzz said:

You have a coach with 6 Lombardi's that changes everything about his team/scheme from week to week, then you have the coaches like Ron who stubbornly make any changes at all.

Brutal to watch.

Yep, Belicheck floats in and out of 3-4, 4-3 and different coverages at will. His linebackers line up inside and outside,..

Ron is a square coach,.. like many who post where you have one or the other and have to get specific personnel to fit your scheme.

until we start getting great football players that are versatile and smart and then putting them in the best position to win, we will be like the 31 teams that don’t win the Super now every year,..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/11/2019 at 6:15 AM, GRWatcher said:

What? You're implying that Rivera and staff did nothing that year. I'll need some solid proof of this. I think you may be going a little to the extreme here.

I wasn't implying he didn't do anything all year, I was implying Ron's philosophies suck and that he expects the players to do his job for him. His in game philosophies have been a huge let down. Time management, adjustments in any area and letting opponents back into games they have no business playing catch-up in are easy examples. The way Ron thinks it's always the players' failure in a loss and not his is evidence that this is his thought process on the players role in ownership of the job of coaching. How many times have you heard Ron state it was his fault for not finding a way to win a game? Once I can think of that even came close to an admission of failure.

I went to search for the 2015 press conference and interview transcripts. I am shocked that there is so little out there and what is there is spotty. The Panther's own site doesn't even have a search function which is a huge let down. All I could scrape together was Ron talking about how he learned his philosophy from this article: https://sportsworld.nbcsports.com/ron-rivera-carolina-panthers/ 

'He studied. He talked to people. He read leadership books. Most of all, he watched how the great coaches worked. He was in awe of how Bears coach Mike Ditka galvanized his teams. “I remember one time he was so mad at us for the way we started practice,” Rivera says, “he just said, ‘That’s it. We’re done. Let’s go. Practice is over.’ And he just walked off.

“Well, what happened? We stayed, and we practiced. Mike Singletary grabbed one of the scripts, and we practiced right off the scripts. That was what made Mike so good. He made us take ownership of the team.” '

The interview or press conference I was referring to went more into depth how his experience with Ditka influenced him to believe that the players should lead and teach the younger guys and that the coaches should step in to adjust what they hear and see. 2015 Cam was reading the defenses and adjusting at the line of scrimmage which made Shula a genius, that was taken away in 2016 and it showed. The two games we lost, the adjustments didn't come. For huge chunks of any game Ron stands on the sideline letting everyone else do their jobs as he looks mad/lost. The game plan that is determined before the game remains in effect even after halftime, which is proof in blown leads. The Seahawks game in the playoff was an example of that. Sorry if that's not as clear as I hoped to put through but it's a brutal week at work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



×
×
  • Create New...