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Gettleman is getting absolutely destroyed by national media... STILL

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That 2011 draft outside of Newton is "gouge your eyes out" worthy.

The 2012 one other than Luke isn't exactly special either (Joe Adams in particular) but at least it wasn't as bad as the year before.

We could be paying Norman what we are paying KK short now, not like short has lived up to the $.

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1 minute ago, PootieNunu said:

We could be paying Norman what we are paying KK short now, not like short has lived up to the $.

Short has actually been pretty good other than last season. Meanwhile, the Redskins have been regretting Norman's contract since about year two. 

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Short has actually been pretty good other than last season. Meanwhile, the Redskins have been regretting Norman's contract since about year two. 

I guess they have, I still dont agree with how it was done, who knows what we could have drafted if we didnt rescind the tag and proceed to draft 3 cb's to try and replace him.

I know the last year he played for us he was a beast, all pro.

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On 4/29/2019 at 8:18 AM, Cracka McNasty said:

It's been 3 days since the draft. 

We have no idea if literally anyone is any good yet. 

Let's evaluate again in 3 years. 

For real, people have Really strong opinions about how the giants and raiders did in the draft. Their picks haven’t even suited up yet! We won’t know for a few years but for now i’ll Trust Moyock and Gettleman at player evaluation over what some random talking head had on mock draft 7.0. 

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11 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Well let's see... In that years draft alone, Taylor Moton, Curtis Samuel, Alex Armah... oh, and some kid named McCaffrey who, I've heard, is kind of a big deal in our offense. They played alongside guys like Trai Turner, Kawann Short, Shaq Thompson and James Bradberry from prior drafts among others. Even more guys to note if you throw in free agents or undrafted players like Andrew Norwell.

Now I'm sure you'll throw some dumbass spin in like "oh, I don't consider any of those guys impact players" or some such, but the reality is we were five years removed from Marty Hurney at that time. While he still had players on the roster - and important ones - that was Gettleman's team, as was the Super Bowl team in 2015.

But hey, don't let stuff like that get in the way.

No need for name calling. The context of the discussion was "In the playoffs again with a Gettleman roster the year after Norman was cut". That would be the 2017 season. Short, Turner, Bradbury, Norwell, sure. I'd include CMC as a major impact, but it was primarily as a slot receiver/3rd down back. After 2017, many people still had their doubts about CMC. 

But if we limit the discussion to the impact of 2017 (again the context of the discussion), the rest of the list didn't have as much of an impact on 2017 as they did in 2018.

In 2017, Curtis Samuel had a total of 15 catches (and had a pretty big part in giving away the Chicago game). Alex Armah didn't record a single carry or catch all year. Fozzy Whitaker had a bigger impact on that team. Our tackles were Daryl Williams and Matt Kalil. We still had Norwell, Kalil and Turner. Did Taylor Moton even see the field much in 2017? Daryl Worley and Kurt Coleman recorded more tackles than Shaq Thompson.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That 2011 draft outside of Newton is "gouge your eyes out" worthy.

The 2012 one other than Luke isn't exactly special either (Joe Adams in particular) but at least it wasn't as bad as the year before.

2009, 2010, and 2011 were atrocious outside of Cam, Kuechly, LaFell, Munnerlyn, Hardy before he went crazy, Goodson before he went crazy, and Gettis before his injury. Robert McClain did come back and perform well for us as depth, so there is that. 2012 was Kuechly, Norman, Nortman, and Silatolu (at least his rookie year, he didn't seem too bad stuck between two Pro Bowlers) which isn't too shabby, to be fair.

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3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

You reacted just as I predicted you would :)

Smith was drafted by Seifert. And to be clear, Hurney worked the logistics of that draft. He wasn't a scout.

If you want to talk early flops, Jimmy Clausen is far from the only one. He's just the most memorable. There's also guys like Everette Brown and Armanti Edwards, both of whom we traded up for. Heck, there was the one draft where the only player that was any good was Captain Munnerlyn and they didn't take him until the 7th.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to talk about early picks though. Yes, Hurney had those because he regularly put together some of the sh-ttiest teams in the league. Again, three winning seasons out of eleven, and two of those came when he was dealing with a roster put together mostly by George Seifert. The longer he was in charge, the worse the team got.

Basically, Hurney was dog sh-t as a GM. and the fact that you're promoting somebody with his kind of record as something great is hilarious.

This time around? He's still benefiting from the previous guy just like before  so we haven't seen the full effect yet, but he has managed to tank the team once already. I'm hoping he doesn't last long enough to make them even worse like he did before.

How do you reconcile these two statements? So in other words, Hurney gets all the blame but none of the credit. Either give him responsibility for the roster or not...you can’t have it both ways.

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2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

How do you reconcile these two statements? So in other words, Hurney gets all the blame but none of the credit. Either give him responsibility for the roster or not...you can’t have it both ways.

He's benefitting from the previous guy yet still managing to fail.

Not that hard to figure out.

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7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's benefitting from the previous guy yet still managing to fail.

Not that hard to figure out.

Anyone would fail if the starting QB's shoulder went out and the coaching staff wouldn't pull him. 

 

Also what I think he's meaning is Gettleman benefitted from Hurney's core players. 

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17 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Anyone would fail if the starting QB's shoulder went out and the coaching staff wouldn't pull him. 

Also what I think he's meaning is Gettleman benefitted from Hurney's core players. 

Which always leads back to the question, why didn't Hurney benefit from them?

I've broken this down before but I'll do it one more time...

Ask somebody what they liked about Dave Gettleman's time here and the answer is pretty much always "winning'.  The Panthers won more consistently with Gettleman In charge than at any other period In team history. And as an aside, trying to credit that success to a guy who put together four straight losing seasons previous to that is pretty stupid, especially given that most of his best picks came because he put together one of the sh-ttiest teams in the league the year before.

Ask somebody what they like about Hurney and the answer sure as hell isn't "winning" because he never did that consistently (three winning seasons out of eleven, two of those early while the roster still had significant influence from Seifert and it just got worse the longer he was in charge). No, the most common answer is "he drafted my favorite player" or "I liked this pick or that pick". With him, the focus is on little details rather than the big picture, which it kind of has to be because the big picture sucked balls.

Flip over to the dislike side and what's the most common complaint about Gettleman: "He cut my favorite player" or some variation of that. The most common complaint about Hurney? Pretty obvious, don't you think? (and already alluded to above)

So the bottom line for me is that the people who prefer Gettleman do so for practical reasons while the people who prefer Hurney tend to do so for emotional ones. Those things tend to come out when the two of them are discussed. It's also painfully obvious when people resort to saying things like "oh, you just love Gettleman". No, I love winning, but that's the kind of response you'd expect from somebody who's thinking emotionally.

Football is not a game that benefits from emotional decisions.

Edited by Mr. Scot
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When I see these threads I cant help but laugh when I think that Gman was a Shula away from bringing this team a Super Bowl and being a legend. What a alternate reality that would have been:crying:

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17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Which always leads back to the question, why didn't Hurney benefit from them?

I've broken this down before but I'll do it one more time...

Ask somebody what they liked about Dave Gettleman's time here and the answer is pretty much always "winning'.  The Panthers won more consistently with Gettleman In charge than at any other period In team history. And as an aside, trying to credit that success to a guy who put together four straight losing seasons previous to that is pretty stupid, especially given that most of his best picks came because he put together one of the sh-ttiest teams in the league the year before.

Ask somebody what they like about Hurney and the answer sure as hell isn't "winning" because he never did that consistently (three winning seasons out of eleven, two of those early while the roster still had significant influence from Seifert and it just got worse the longer he was in charge). No, the most common answer is "he drafted my favorite player" or "I liked this pick or that pick". With him, the focus is on little details rather than the big picture, which it kind of has to be because the big picture sucked balls.

Flip over to the dislike side and what's the most common complaint about Gettleman: "He cut my favorite player" or some variation of that. The most common complaint about Hurney? Pretty obvious, don't you think? (and already alluded to above)

So the bottom line for me is that the people who prefer Gettleman do so for practical reasons while the people who prefer Hurney tend to do so for emotional ones. Those things tend to come out when the two of them are discussed. It's also painfully obvious when people resort to saying things like "oh, you just love Gettleman". No, I love winning, but that's the kind of response you'd expect from somebody who's thinking emotionally.

Football is not a game that benefits from emotional decisions.

As for why didn't Hurney benefit, I think Hurney being fired lit a fire under Rivera and I think Hurney failed on the fa front and since late picks hadn't been hitting the teams depth was poor and 2009-2010 cap descisions bit the team on the ass. 

Obviously some of that is on Richardson and staff, but mostly it's on Hurney. 

Taking emotions out of the equation and I think that Gettleman's roster was starting to age from the lack of draft picks over the time period he was in charge. (We drafted the fewest players during that window) The roster, especially on defense was getting to a point it had to be retooled. 

 

So I think no matter who was in charge last year the result would've been the same. Age doesn't sneak up on you in Football, it hits like a Mack truck and that's what happened last season. 

 

This year and possibly next year are very important seasons for Rivera and Hurney. Even with the extra time from making the move to a 3-4, if the team doesn't look improved and make strides they might not make it through this transition. 

Edited by carpanfan96
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40 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He's benefitting from the previous guy yet still managing to fail.

Not that hard to figure out.

Benefiting how...? Let me ask you simply: whose roster was it last year? Gettleman’s or Hurney’s? If your answer is both, then they both get blame for last season’s failures. You can’t pick and choose.

Otherwise, does Hurney get the credit for Gettleman’s first season with the Panthers when we went 12-4 since he benefited from Hurney’s players? Your system of assigning blame and credit is such an ambiguous process of cherry-picking.

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29 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

As for why didn't Hurney benefit, I think Hurney being fired lit a fire under Rivera and I think Hurney failed on the fa front and since late picks hadn't been hitting the teams depth was poor and 2009-2010 cap descisions bit the team on the ass. 

Obviously some of that is on Richardson and staff, but mostly it's on Hurney. 

Taking emotions out of the equation and I think that Gettleman's roster was starting to age from the lack of draft picks over the time period he was in charge. (We drafted the fewest players during that window) The roster, especially on defense was getting to a point it had to be retooled. 

So I think no matter who was in charge last year the result would've been the same. Age doesn't sneak up on you in Football, it hits like a Mack truck and that's what happened last season. 

This year and possibly next year are very important seasons for Rivera and Hurney. Even with the extra time from making the move to a 3-4, if the team doesn't look improved and make strides they might not make it through this transition. 

The thing to is that you have to look at their success as a combination. Rivera was a winning coach under Gettleman. Under Hurney, not so much.

Why? I'd say it's because Gettleman and Rivera had complementary strengths and weaknesses. Hurney and Rivera, on the other hand, seem to be weak in some of the same areas.

If we're talking personally, I think Rivera and Hurney are both really nice guys. Unfortunately, I also think neither of them is very good at their jobs, and the combination of the two of them looks a lot more ready to fail than to succeed.

As an aside, if the Giants succeed or fail it will be due to Gettleman and Shurmur as a combination, not just the two of them as individuals. That's how it works.

Hope I'm wrong about Hurney/Rivera, but we'll see.

Edited by Mr. Scot
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6 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Benefiting how...? Let me ask you simply: whose roster was it last year? Gettleman’s or Hurney’s? If your answer is both, then they both get blame for last season’s failures. You can’t pick and choose.

Otherwise, does Hurney get the credit for Gettleman’s first season with the Panthers when we went 12-4 since he benefited from Hurney’s players? Your system of assigning blame and credit is such an ambiguous process of cherry-picking.

Last year's roster was Hurney's, and I said so prior to the season. Did he benefit from leftover players? Sure, but that doesn't matter. All that ultimately matters is who's in control of putting the roster together. In 2017, that was Gettleman. But in 2018, it was Hurney.

Someone asked me before last year started to go on record as saying that the 2018 season belonged to Marty. They did so likely expecting it to be a successful one. I said yes not because I had any expectations, but because that's how it works.

Earlier this offseason, I asked people to go on record saying that this is Marty's roster regardless of whether it rises or falls. Nobody wanted to do it.

Edited by Mr. Scot
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