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Proudiddy

Gettleman is getting absolutely destroyed by national media... STILL

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Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not at all convinced they can survive two losing seasons in a row.

I also don't buy that Tepper mandated the 3-4 thing. I see that as a desperation move by Rivera.

I don't think it was either, I think it was a Rivera thing because of the success they had running it the last few weeks of the season. 

 

Tepper signed off on it though when they met up in NJ early in the off-season. I'd assume Tepper reasearched this before saying yes, but everyone knows major changes like that take time. 

 

Usually takes 2-3 seasons to fully convert, so I don't see any way he committed to that change not knowing there would be some serious growing pains on defense making that conversion. Also with all the unknowns with Cam's shoulder, I don't think it's completely out of question that both survive another loosing season if the defense improves or shows signs of improvement if something else keeps them from winning. "Say a major injury or Cam's shoulder not being 100%..ext.."

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3 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

That 2011 draft outside of Newton is "gouge your eyes out" worthy.

The 2012 one other than Luke isn't exactly special either (Joe Adams in particular) but at least it wasn't as bad as the year before.

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

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Just now, carpanfan96 said:

I don't think it was either, I think it was a Rivera thing because of the success they had running it the last few weeks of the season. 

Tepper signed off on it though when they met up in NJ early in the off-season. I'd assume Tepper reasearched this before saying yes, but everyone knows major changes like that take time. 

Usually takes 2-3 seasons to fully convert, so I don't see any way he committed to that change not knowing there would be some serious growing pains on defense making that conversion. Also with all the unknowns with Cam's shoulder, I don't think it's completely out of question that both survive another loosing season if the defense improves or shows signs of improvement if something else keeps them from winning. "Say a major injury or Cam's shoulder not being 100%..ext.."

I think you'd have to admit though that if they do survive another bad season, fans are going to revolt.

Right now, the two of them both have contracts for two more years. They've done nothing to justify extending those contracts, and I don't have a lot of faith that they will.

There's also a little part of me that wonders if Tepper is just waiting for Kevin Colbert's contract to run out (next year, I think) so that he can try and lure him down here, but that's sheer speculation.

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9 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

And Cordy Glenn was the very next pick to Buffalo.

This year it was Greg Little in the second, with Cody Ford going the next pick to Buffalo.

I really, really hope this is not a case of history repeating itself.

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10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think you'd have to admit though that if they do survive another bad season, fans are going to revolt.

Right now, the two of them both have contracts for two more years. They've done nothing to justify extending those contracts, and I don't have a lot of faith that they will.

There's also a little part of me that wonders if Tepper is just waiting for Kevin Colbert's contract to run out (next year, I think) so that he can try and lure him down here, but that's sheer speculation.

Oh yeah fans would revolt for sure, I have no doubt about it. Hell some fans revolted when he came back and then was hired full time. (Understandably so and justified as well) I honestly don't think Tepper will be too overly concerned about it with the Dynamics of the team being what it is. 

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4 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

Oh yeah fans would revolt for sure, I have no doubt about it. Hell some fans revolted when he came back and then was hired full time. (Understandably so and justified as well) I honestly don't think Tepper will be too overly concerned about it with the Dynamics of the team being what it is. 

Not so sure. Tepper definitely pays more attention to what fans think than Richardson did. A lot of his marketing moves make that pretty obvious. whether he'd let them affect him to the point of making a football decision is another story, of course.

On the flipside, he also cares about winning. Jerry Richardson didn't care enough about it to fire people that he liked. I'm not sure if that's Tepper or not, but I guess we'll find out.

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Gettleman has proven that he cannot win without Rivera.

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59 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I've seen your posts. You don't qualify as somebody who "has the slightest bit of football knowledge"... or any of it.

Heck, we know from past experience that you don't even watch the games.

We get it man, you love Gettleman. You think he invented football and your still butthurt they fired him. All you can do at this point is make excuses for his failures 

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Just now, GoobyPls said:

We get it man, you love Gettleman. You think he invented football and your still butthurt they fired him. All you can do at this point is make excuses for his failures 

What's hysterical here is that I specifically commented in an earlier post about how stupid this type of response is and why people say it, yet here you are.

Hilarious :)

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34 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Gettleman did benefit from good players that Hurney left behind. He also was saddled with bad ones and a horrible cap situation. That's why crediting his success to Marty Hurney is stupid.

Marty Hurney likewise benefited from good players that Dave Gettleman left behind. He was also saddled with problems like Matt Kalil. But as before, any success or failure from 2018 forward is Hurney's alone.

The 2017 season is the one oddity because all of the offseason work was done by Gettleman. Crediting Hurney for that success would be like having one member of a wrestling tag team do all the work in a match, having the second guy tag in just to make the pin and then saying it was the second guy who won it.

Bottom Line: I want this team to win championships, and I don't trust the combination of Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera to do it.

It's not that complicated.

I know your stance is not that complicated, I’m just trying to explore it beyond the surface level of “I don’t trust Hurney”. For example, you give credence to the different coach/GM dynamics like Ron + Gettleman and Ron + Hurney. However, you’re not considering GM/owner dynamics like Hurney + Richardson vs. Hurney + Tepper. I think we can all agree that Richardson was a pretty terrible owner and had a tendency to meddle based on his emotions. Is it possible in your eyes that Hurney + Tepper could be a successful GM/owner combo? Consistent across every coach and GM in our franchise’s history (yes, even Gettleman) has been our astonishingly pitiful streak of never having back-to-back winning seasons. Who has been the common denominator for all those years?

I asked if you think Hurney is making smarter moves this time around, but you didn’t answer. If you think he is making smarter moves, then I don’t think the justification of “Hurney sucked 10 years ago, therefore our future is doomed to repeat itself under his management” is fitting. I think even most of Hurney’s most ardent detractors agree that he has managed this team much more competently this time around.

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7 minutes ago, Car123 said:

Gettleman has proven that he cannot win without Rivera.

Sure did prove that both he and the Panthers could win without Steve Smith though :thinking:

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8 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I know your stance is not that complicated, I’m just trying to explore it beyond the surface level of “I don’t trust Hurney”. For example, you give credence to the different coach/GM dynamics like Ron + Gettleman and Ron + Hurney. However, you’re not considering GM/owner dynamics like Hurney + Richardson vs. Hurney + Tepper. I think we can all agree that Richardson was a pretty terrible owner and had a tendency to meddle based on his emotions. Is it possible in your eyes that Hurney + Tepper could be a successful GM/owner combo? Consistent across every coach and GM in our franchise’s history (yes, even Gettleman) has been our astonishingly pitiful streak of never having back-to-back winning seasons. Who has been the common denominator for all those years?

I asked if you think Hurney is making smarter moves this time around, but you didn’t answer. If you think he is making smarter moves, then I don’t think the justification of “Hurney sucked 10 years ago, therefore our future is doomed to repeat itself under his management” is fitting. I think even most of Hurney’s most ardent detractors agree that he has managed this team much more competently this time around.

Moves he's made this time are still very much up in the air.

You've only got one full season under Hurney to judge by and that season was a loser. You can talk about mitigating circumstances, but then you'd also have to apply that to Gettleman's seasons as well. I understand those things, but I tend to set them aside in both cases.

As to the owner dynamic, David Tepper is still primarily a hedge fund manager. The only major football decision he can definitively be said to have been involved with is retaining Rivera and Hurney. That means the two of them have a lot of leeway. And thus, whether they succeed or fail, you can't put very much of that on Tepper.

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39 minutes ago, tiger7_88 said:

 

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Amini Silatolu was a 2nd round pick (40th pick overall) in the 2012 draft.

Not only was he a 2nd round pick by our current "yes man" gm, he was then trotted out by our coach on a yearly basis.

Should show both of their incompetence, but Tepper decided to keep them another year. 

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11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sure did prove that both he and the Panthers could win without Steve Smith though :thinking:

After an embarrassing season.

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Just now, Car123 said:

After an embarrassing season.

Followed by the best one in team history.

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