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panther4life

How do you want to attack the rebuild?

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58 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

This is almost exactly what I would do if it were my money given what appears to be the current direction of the owner.  Although you may be forced to hold onto KK for one more year because you left Hurney in control too long.  I would have fired his ass as soon as I signed the papers to purchase the team.  But other than those minor details I'm with you.

Even with the bad dead cap, we’d still save $14M. Regardless of dead cap, we’d still be paying him a “new” $14M to be here in 2020. People don’t get the dead cap, that’s going to hit regardless if he’s here or not. It’s the new money, his 2020 salary, that we would save. I’d rather have that extra $14M than a degrading Short who’s coming off season ending injury. That sure hasn’t worked out well for us.

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6 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

With somebody other than Hurney in charge of it.

That's how you know this "re-build" talk is all bullshit. Actions > Words ..

We still have Hurney, and we went and signed Joe Brady to be OC - who probably wouldn't have came here if he thought we'd "win 6 games max"

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Goal: build a core of under 28 year old players first. Then we fill in the blanks with FA vets

Cam decision depends on what teams offer in return

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18 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Roll with Cam and put every effort into fixing the trenches.

It sounds like Bradberry wants elite CB money. I think I'd let him test the market. If someone is willing to pay him elite money, wish him the best of luck. I'd be willing to pay him borderline top 10 CB type money, but if he's shooting for top 5 thanks but no thanks.

Roll with Cam this year and see what he can do.  Is he healthy or is he not.  If he is healthy we make the choice to sign him to a 5 year contract or trade him.

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According to spotrac with the new CBA, there will be no “post June 1st cut” provision that allows you to spread dead cap over the next 2 years due to the new CBA coming. 

Works out fine for a team like us in the middle of a rebuild, not so much for teams trying to squeeze out extra cap space to be competitive this year.

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12 hours ago, (ATL'ien)CamNewton said:

That's how you know this "re-build" talk is all bullshit. Actions > Words ..

We still have Hurney, and we went and signed Joe Brady to be OC - who probably wouldn't have came here if he thought we'd "win 6 games max"

You have no idea what you're talking about.

giphy.gif

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Step 1: Sign Nate Sudfeld

Step 2: _________________

Step 3: Profit

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The key to the rebuild should be moving on from pieces who are on the wrong side of 30, have a major injury history, and/or aren't meeting their contracts. You keep Cam and let him have a prove it year for his health and in the new system, or trade him if in March we don't feel great about his health going forward.

If he sticks around you have 1 season to figure out if he's going to work out moving forward, and if he can't stay healthy you're almost assuredly end the season poorly and are in a position to draft a QB anyways.

In FA I believe you have to target one of the few good, young NTs we can build the line around, and evaluate what we can get at Guard, and DE without breaking the bank.

In the draft you can then go after an OT or DT early to help build up the lines, and then you begin attacking the pass rush situation, and issues at WR, and CB.

If we move on from Cam I wouldn't be opposed to signing a QB if the price is right, like a Teddy Bridgewater, who can come in and be an Alex Smith type guy while we find our next QB and then be used as trade bait later.

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Just now, Madwolf said:

The key to the rebuild should be moving on from pieces who are on the wrong side of 30, have a major injury history, and/or aren't meeting their contracts. You keep Cam and let him have a prove it year for his health and in the new system, or trade him if in March we don't feel great about his health going forward.

If he sticks around you have 1 season to figure out if he's going to work out moving forward, and if he can't stay healthy you're almost assuredly end the season poorly and are in a position to draft a QB anyways.

In FA I believe you have to target one of the few good, young NTs we can build the line around, and evaluate what we can get at Guard, and DE without breaking the bank.

In the draft you can then go after an OT or DT early to help build up the lines, and then you begin attacking the pass rush situation, and issues at WR, and CB.

If we move on from Cam I wouldn't be opposed to signing a QB if the price is right, like a Teddy Bridgewater, who can come in and be an Alex Smith type guy while we find our next QB and then be used as trade bait later.

Been meaning to ask you is LT Becton a beast? Is he a day 1 starter?

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Until its known what type of offense/defense we'll run, it's impossible to answer these questions. 

I dont think it's a complete rebuild, but there's gonna be some drastic changes to free cap space. 

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On 2/13/2020 at 8:03 PM, stbugs said:

If you’re serious about the rebuild and Cam is gone, then you do the following:

1. Don’t resign our FAs. I’ve posted it before, but you’re looking at a bevy of 2021 comp picks from 3rd to 7th for Bradberry, McCoy, Butler, Boston, Irvin, Addison, Van Roten, Hogan, Cockrell, Williams and maybe Wright and Poe (not sure about declined club options). I’d say we’d probably get a 3rd, two 4th/5th, two 5ths and possibly two 6th/7ths. It could really be that many.

2. Trade Cam and get a 2nd and free up cap space.

3. Decline club options on Poe and Wright to free up cap space.

4. Release Short and Mike Davis to free up cap space. Trade or release Gano.

5. Look at FAs available after the comp pick deadline.

6. Draft BPA. No reaching, just BPA with a slight leaning towards the line since T is pretty deep. I wouldn’t mind a WR and CB as well based on how deep they seem.

7. Make sure that Marty isn’t making final decisions on rounds 2-7 and replace him as soon as possible.

8. Hope we get the top pick in 2021 and get to the SB and win it in 2024.

Having us both addressed this a number of times, I see you have your strategy down to a science.  I agree mostly, so I will say without parroting you 95% of your plan, that we can keep some low end FAs.  Last year 7th round comps bottomed out at about $2.5 million per year, so probably close to $3 million this year.  Not all our FAs can get that on the open market.  So keeping a handful guys to help fill spots would be beneficial (Van Roten, Elliott, Hogan, McGee etc...  We still have to field a 53-man roster...jettisoning every FA isn't quite an option in favor of signing warm bodies who agree to play for peanuts.  

I'm on the fence about Bradberry.  I think we need one solid holdover from each positional group.  I can't see Jackson as the leader of the corners.  Honestly, I think he may end up being a bust.   If he is, Bradberry would be the only thing we have to build on back there.

Lastly, I think we are contenders in 2022 if things play out favorably...two years sooner than you figure.  If Hurney is still here we may still be in rebuild mode even in 2024.  

 

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16 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Having us both addressed this a number of times, I see you have your strategy down to a science.  I agree mostly, so I will say without parroting you 95% of your plan, that we can keep some low end FAs.  Last year 7th round comps bottomed out at about $2.5 million per year, so probably close to $3 million this year.  Not all our FAs can get that on the open market.  So keeping a handful guys to help fill spots would be beneficial (Van Roten, Elliott, Hogan, McGee etc...  We still have to field a 53-man roster...jettisoning every FA isn't quite an option in favor of signing warm bodies who agree to play for peanuts.  

I'm on the fence about Bradberry.  I think we need one solid holdover from each positional group.  I can't see Jackson as the leader of the corners.  Honestly, I think he may end up being a bust.   If he is, Bradberry would be the only thing we have to build on back there.

Lastly, I think we are contenders in 2022 if things play out favorably...two years sooner than you figure.  If Hurney is still here we may still be in rebuild mode even in 2024.  

 

Agreed on the lower FAs. 7th round picks aren’t worth too much and some of our FAs may not get a big enough deal. I’m in favor of keeping depth but again FAs like that are available after the comp deadline. Boston and Reid got signed when they had no impact on comp picks. Guys like Van Roten and Elliott aren’t going to be first or even second wave pickups. Also, anyone released doesn’t affect comp picks so plenty of guys to fill out the roster. I hope Hurney’s gone as well. His drafting the past two years helped us get to where we are. 

Edited by stbugs

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How would I, or what do I expect the team to do?

If you are going to do this correctly, which I have zero faith in our current FO to do, we should do the following.

Trade Cam, or release him.

Extend Moton and front load the hell out of the deal.

Take our lumps this year, only in 2020 with the cap.  Do NOTHING that affects the cap in 21 or beyond, that includes signing all contracts FA or homegrown.  I'm 100% fine being against the cap ceiling if that means clearing all dead money, front loading Moton, and moving on from KK.  Take all the lumps now.

Let Bradberry walk at this point, we should have signed him last offseason, like I'm wanting to do with Moton now.

Let CMC ride out his deal, unless he is taking a hometown discount, which he won't.  IF you must sign him, front load the contract heavily.

Save our draft resources, especially next years picks.  I don't want to move up for a QB this year, but if we do, no draft picks should be used that are next years picks, especially our 1st.  IF we do go that route, bring in a Rivers type player to let Tua (I'm assuming) learn and let us beef up that O Line a little more before we David Carr him.

Everyone over 27 needs to call their Realtor.

I'd prefer the top rated T if he's there at 7, and if not, possibly the top rated DT, although I would prefer to move back a bit and pick up a 2nd.  We need to get cheap and young....fast.

For God's sake, get Hurney out of the building.

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