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16 hours ago, pantherj said:

The DT crazy Huddle was doing back flips over locking KK down to a contract, now Hurney is an idiot. Please. We have to change the blueprint for how we built up this team, and until we do that we're going to keep losing. 

Do people realize it was Gettleman who originally gave Short that contract? What Hurney did to fug it up was restructure the deal giving Short more guaranteed money greatly reducing our cap flexibility. I had no issue with the original contract. Hurney took that contract and fuged us with it.

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3 hours ago, rippadonn said:

How many twenty year olds playing against fully grown men are going to win? Grown ars men! This ain't college football. You need veterans to win, period. What nonsense.

Did you use the "w" word? 

 

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1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Do people realize it was Gettleman who originally gave Short that contract? What Hurney did to fug it up was restructure the deal giving Short more guaranteed money greatly reducing our cap flexibility. I had no issue with the original contract. Hurney took that contract and fuged us with it.

We knocked down his 2019 salary to $7,744,000 but have to pay him more than $20,000,000 a year the next two years. The fact he got hurt last year is just the cherry on top. You have to wonder if Tepper OKed this. What a massive failure. 

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24 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Did you use the "w" word? 

 

Oops, we're not supposed to "win". My bad.

 

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If we’re in a rebuild mode I’d cut all the big contracts or trade 

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1 hour ago, Waldo said:

 

We knocked down his 2019 salary to $7,744,000 but have to pay him more than $20,000,000 a year the next two years. The fact he got hurt last year is just the cherry on top. You have to wonder if Tepper OKed this. What a massive failure. 

You can cut him next year, it'll cost 10 mil in dead cap and if the new cba has similar provisions they can split it 6k/4k across two years.  

The restructure wasnt near as bad as peeps are making it out to be.  They converted a total of 13 mil btwn two players and they used that money on Shaqs contract and rolled the rest to this year.  The fact he got hurt makes it looks worse but I think they always intended to have him on the 2020 roster anyways.

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4 minutes ago, CBDellinger said:

You can cut him next year, it'll cost 10 mil in dead cap and if the new cba has similar provisions they can split it 6k/4k across two years.  

The restructure wasnt near as bad as peeps are making it out to be.  They converted a total of 13 mil btwn two players and they used that money on Shaqs contract and rolled the rest to this year.  The fact he got hurt makes it looks worse but I think they always intended to have him on the 2020 roster anyways.

If we are not going to be winning this year, why not cut him this year and take that $17,000,000 hit and get it off the books? He has played 16 games the past 2 years and isn't in the 5 year plan. I thought just use him as a warm body next year but clearing that garbage contract off the books looks very attractive. 

His restructure was completely unnecessary and now we are looking at cutting him or eating his salary for meh play that last two years. We paid him $7,000,000 for 2 games last year and now we owe him more than $40,000,000 the next two years. That is especially stupid and bad for a 31 year old DT that isn't producing the kind of play that kind of contract requires. Pushing the guaranteed money back to this year and next shows a complete lack of knowledge and understanding that is common in Hurney mistakes. 

I'm not betting anything on the new CBA until it's done. There already isn't a June 1st cut this year and we could really use it on KK at this point but I am fine with eating it now and clearing his bad contract off the books. Not the player's fault, that's on the front office. 

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44 minutes ago, CBDellinger said:

You can cut him next year, it'll cost 10 mil in dead cap and if the new cba has similar provisions they can split it 6k/4k across two years.  

The restructure wasnt near as bad as peeps are making it out to be.  They converted a total of 13 mil btwn two players and they used that money on Shaqs contract and rolled the rest to this year.  The fact he got hurt makes it looks worse but I think they always intended to have him on the 2020 roster anyways.

  They added 1.5M to Shaq’s cap hit for 2019. Four months after this move(s). And kicked the cam to this year with no June 1 cuts to split the cap and make it easy to cut/trade. 

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6 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Do people realize it was Gettleman who originally gave Short that contract? What Hurney did to fug it up was restructure the deal giving Short more guaranteed money greatly reducing our cap flexibility. I had no issue with the original contract. Hurney took that contract and fuged us with it.

He also restructured Lukes deal at least twice, thus giving the panthers that huge dead cap hit this year. Thanks again Herniay....big thanks... 

Ive been thinking when was the last "true" bargain contract Herniay had?? Best I can come up with is Delhommes first contract. He is one of worst when it comes to signing players with contracts. 

Edited by Basbear

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On 2/17/2020 at 8:07 PM, Jared Patterson said:

Surprised people haven't talked about trying to trade Short. He is 31 and is not going to be apart of a rebuild. He is still a top 10-12 DT in the league. I heard on the radio today that we should look to trade him and I completely agree. I understand his contract is way too expensive and Hurney screwed us yet again, but could we get a mid round draft pick for him?

Honestly, I'm not so sure Hurney screwed us on this one as much as KK did. KK was setting the league on fire when he got that contract and he looked like he'd be the most dominant DT in the league for years to come. It wasn't just that season but how he had developed over time. And KK was going to get paid, the hype machine was going to make sure of it.

And all of us were pretty much on it, too. We weren't going to let him get away and be a monster for someone else. Had he gone, the uproar would have been terrible. Instead, we gave him a big contract and let Star walk.

And then KK just got fat and lazy on the contract, or so it seemed. His numbers started tapering off. He wasn't terrorizing QBs so much as flopping onto the pile for a half sack. He basically gave up on stopping the run game. 

Or maybe, and most likely, he missed Star. Star was the unsung hero there, taking on blockers, tying up the middle of the field and basically clearing a path for KK. Star went north to Buffalo and did his job well there, too and with just about as much fanfare.

Now we have KK with a big cap hit and coming off an injury season. Maybe he will get out there and try to impress the coaches, but I don't think he has any real trade value. The best we can hope for is that he sees this as a prove it year and balls out, otherwise a team in rebuild mode might just jettison him and take the cap hit to free up the space and clear out the unmotivated.

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The restructure was dumb as it did nothing in the end and wasted $4-5M that we could have saved by releasing him this year. That said, ignore the dead cap. We have to account for that $17M no matter whether he’s on the team or not. The question is do we exacerbate the issue by paying him a new $14M for this year. So, if he plays with us, his cap hit is $20M this year and he still has $11 more dead cap. If we cut him now we eat $17M in cap. If we cut him next year we eat $31M in cap and we do risk the fact that Marty decides that since he still has an $11M dead cap we might as well let him play in 2021. If we let him play out the contract, then we eat a total of $46M in cap.

So, for the future of this rebuild, I’d rather cut bait on an old, injured, not nearly at his peak DT and eat the $17M in cap space rather than waste $31M or possibly $46M in cap space by letting him hang around.

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On 2/19/2020 at 9:55 AM, Khyber53 said:

The best we can hope for is that he sees this as a prove it year and balls out, otherwise a team in rebuild mode might just jettison him and take the cap hit to free up the space and clear out the unmotivated.

I’m kind of leaning toward the latter. The $17M in dead cap can’t be removed. It hangs around. The question is whether or not we add another $14M this year and $14.6M in 2021. Dead cap scares people but that dead cap is with us whether he plays this year with us or not. It’s the new money that would take more space away from rolling over to future years when we want to make FA splashes.

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Hes not going to get an additional 14 mil this year or next.  14 mil is his potential salary... base + bonuses.   Its already part of the 20 mil.

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On 2/17/2020 at 10:55 PM, pantherj said:

The only boat that ruined KK was the boat load of money we payed him.

and the one that took Star to Buffalo.

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