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I still think there is a difference, which will interesting to see play out. Brady wasn’t a beloved GOAT. I mean most, not saying there weren’t anti-Tiger folks, but the majority were rooting for him. Same with a Jordan. I think most people rooted against Brady.

Plus there is also the positional difference. Bryce isn’t just small. Since the 1940s….it’s basically a discussion of who was smaller between Bryce and Floutie. Bryce is uniquely small. you can stay in 89s era and find small guys doing big things

You could replay that head catch 100 times and Eli wouldn’t even get the throw off for the lucky catch to of even had a chance. Big time athletes talk a lot about luck factoring. The Giants caught some luck when it mattered. But again, I was comparing their demeanors as players. Not the highlights of a team whose QB didn’t even have a winning record as a starter. Eli has the trophy case of a great QB. He wasn’t one.

I mean, being with the #1 overall pick and proving the doubters wrong I think are 2 separate things 1. Bryce will most likely never be worth the pick 2. Can he prove people wrong? Well, that’s not that tall of an order. He can be a middle tier starting QB I think does that. 11-16ish range. Like a healthy Alex Smith. I think he can in the right situation. Situation and fit is what most of the NFL boils down to

I compared their demeanors as QBs. Eli didn’t check the traditional box you look for there at the NFL. Where the QB is basically slotted in as the default leader of the team. Eli wasn’t really that guy. 100% wasn’t early on in his career. Eli got lucky in the postseason. That’s sports. But he was a .500 NFL QB with the Manning legacy aiding him. Hell, Cam and Jake had better win %s than Eli.

Except for O scheme that doesn’t fit him and a newb OC that has never been an OC and another first time QB coach. That’s all repeated. And going in he has a slot WR that can’t get open quick, meh TE play in 2024 most likely and a no proven NFL rec RB. he has a weapons in place for a downfield pass attack. Which isn’t his game. I still think he is set up to fail largely. Again

Cam came in here and it took him years to kill the check cashier and it’s just a game mindset that existed. It seeps in quick without the right leadership. Cam essentially acknowledged it when he briefly returned. Carolina IMO has clearly lacked the right in house mentality since Cam, Luke, TD and Greg all left. I think Morgan is right to identity that. I think we are still missing it. New HC ain’t bringing it. QB ain’t bringing it. Morgan got work to do there. Can’t fix that in an offseason though.

I think you example/argument applied entering last season. Both were doubted because of their size, BUT when both were given opportunity to play...they just people up and maximized it. Bryce Young did not do what they did when given the opportunity to. I think the window you are referring to has come and gone. The pre-NFL arrival size talk. That's not the convo given we are talking about actual play and what they showed. So none of that matters anymore. 89/Mills got the opportunity and started proving folks wrong from year 1. More opportunity, the more people continued to look stupid (as in 89). That's not Bryce. Bryce is the opposite, the size questions aren't being proven wrong but reinforced with him to date.

Bryce Young is Eli Manning-ish IMO. I mean, it's not that you can't be successful with a QB wired like that. But Bryce Young doesn't check so many of the textbook boxes you look for. Eli didn't check that box either. Problem is Bryce just doesn't check so many of them. They add up at this level.

he came into the league hurt. he played probably the majority of this career banged up.

if rookie Cam Newton walked into the Panthers org today.....you got to think Bryce Young is the type player Cam would be talking about when he starts talking in house mentality. Just saying. In an offseason fixated on dawg talk, Bryce Young said he spent the offseason doing everything except thinking about football and doing football stuff. Other teams got dudes talking about doing all nighters doing nothing but thinking about the game.

You misspelled taller JStew was built like a tank. That lower body was nuts. Stew was insane physically.

89's first NFL touch was a TD and he was all pro/pro bowl as a rookie. Was he a great WR? Not yet. But he showed you from day 1 he was special on a NFL field. I mean, that's basically the main issue on Bryce.....he got a full season and never really showed any glimpses of being special. Yeah, Sam Mills wasn't drafted. Sam Mills was good immediately on the field (which was my point). No one would be complaining about Bryce if he showed and gave people moments to hang their hopes on. The guys you named did that.

I don't equate being a great jump ball catcher to being a bad pass catcher/fixer. I mean, to take advantage of a great jump ball catcher...accuracy and ball placement still matter. They generally can be covered and the decision to go there still be good. Where as you would look away for some one else. Which means you are accurately putting it in a place where the guy can go up and get it over his opponent. I mean, sure XL can help you a little bit and save you from time to time. But if you are playing that jump ball game you still got to put it in the right spot the majority of the time to give him the shot.

I mean, I don't think anyone would be doubting Bryce if had similar play to those dudes when they entered the league.

Yeah, he is an interesting choice because of the hate % he has always carried. Rooting against Brady is just how so many are wired.

You still need good accuracy and ball placement to take advantage of good jump ball WR.

Fox gave him a demotion and pay cut for that work.

yes, but how much improvement do you really get from Bryce Young....improving the areas that aren't his go to areas? Hell, if I had it my way, I'd move Johnson into a lot of slot work. Not full time but I'd have to get other blood in there. He would get the ball. Think keeping him happy is key to keeping him productive. He wants the ball. And if happy, he can do all Theilen does but better....outside of his hands. Theilen does have him beat there.

I'm not actually lobbying for Renfrow. He was just an example of how different WRs are and how different roles carry different weight pending the QB/O. Yes, in terms of Sanders we are stuck with him. But the point then still remains going into this season. and I differ in how Thielen is viewed. Slot WR is just too important for Bryce given how he plays. Theilen while a good overall WR, is too limited in the quick pass game and offers none of the upside Bryce really needs. He struggles to get open quick and has almost no YAC threat. A glorified sure handed TE at this stage. Which Bryce needs but at the actual TE spot. But yeah, if you throw at him 120 times he is good enough to have yards on the stat sheet. Theilen did that last year. Slot WR and rec RB in some offenses and for some QBs aren't that important of roles. I just think they are huge roles for Bryce Young. TE play too. I think for Bryce Young the vertical threats are less important. More important for others. I think the vertical threats matter in Canales O. A lot. So I'm still where I was last year. The QB doesn't fit. Which I am fine with. But it's hard not to talk about it given we just mortgaged the short term on Bryce. so I question the leadership/vision. Which keeps coming back to Tepper. I mean, let's see if parts that don't really work, work together. And if they don't? Seems like we should be trying to put parts that work together, together.

clearly, I don't. Johnson and Renfrow have really nothing to do with each other. Theilen and Renfrow don't really either. Yeah, an old Renfrow wouldn't need to see the field much. Heck, a young one is very dependent on the scheme/O. Renfrow is 100% a niche role player in the NFL. He is only going to fit and be of real use for a small handful of teams/QBs. You need the right role players around Bryce. Take RB. I beat the drum all last offseason that Hubbard/Sanders were a horrible duo last year to pair with him because they weren't natural pass catchers. Two early down runners. Bryce 100% needs a rec RB. You don't need CMC or do nothing lol. Lots of SOLID niche 3rd down types. We opted to bring in one of the worst in the game in that role in Sanders lol.

just go with the assumption for a minute Bryce Young is naturally a small ball QB....because that's where I am We have a chunk pass play O that isn't actually inventive (based on what we know/seen of Canales). In terms of the pass game weapons that Bryce naturally would lean to....we have a painfully slow slot WR. We should open the season with an early down runner a RB. Weak TE play. So just like last year, those big 3 positions for a small ball QB remain weak. Now we do have Johnson on the outside who is an improvement over Chark. But if I am an opposing D I'm sitting on that slant and cross route all game every game until Bryce/Johnson can consistently beat me elsewhere. Teams sat on the pass game because Bryce couldn't prove to do anything else that was costly. And he is a bit of a wildcard too. I mean, that's why he is here. XL IMO, I put to the side for a minute in terms of opening up the year and being a big aid to Bryce. That doesn't seem like a good setup to see if Bryce really has it. Seems just like another bad fit/design for Bryce (if you believe he is suited for the quick pass, which I do)

again, a creative quick pass O. That prioritizes the weapons that excel in it. No argument exists that you need the best positional players in the game to make that work. No argument is made he needs prime D. Adams. Hell, Bryce probably would benefit more from Hunter Renfrow. But you need the scheme/play calling. Rookie Bryce was given a predictable play-caller that doesn't run a scheme that fits Bryce, a slow slot WR, an early down RB, and whack TE play. I said before the start of last season he was being setup to fail. The league was going to sit on our pass game. We didn't have the weapons for him to dish out to. No one liked that then. No one likes it now. But it's the same thoughts and reasoning.

take a Cam Newton, he came into the NFL and basically we built a Cam-centric O around him. Doesn't mean he would never sniff some "traditional play". He did. Exceptions are that. And the minority. It would be like giving Cam Newton as a rookie prime Wes Welker and saying Cam should be able to work with that in some quick hitter scheme ripping of Tom Brady. That's a bad marriage from the jump if that's what the coach asks. That wasn't what Cam was going to be able to do coming in. IMO, Bryce was always going to need that. Which for Bryce was going to be living in the gun in a creative quick pass O.....with strong rec RB, slot WR, and TE play. Sure you need outside guys to keep stuff honest. But he has never a proven puzzle piece of that going into a season to help develop him. Got some rookies this year. And rookies are always a crap shoot. I mean, I'm just exactly at the same place I was this time last year. Bryce and the Panthers don't seem to be a great fit. And I think that is largely the fault of the team that drafted him.