micnificent28

What gets me is the idea that these old school cats think that EVERY pocket passer is Tom Brady Brady can throw the football and wins games. Your saying all of them are more talented than Micheal vick and wins yous more games get out of here.. for the Few micheal vicks there are 1000 more failed pocket passers. Jeff George, Todd Marinovich, heath Shuler, Joey Harrington,Ryan leaf, Tim couch,cade Mccown,, Patrick Ramsey, J.P lawman, Brady Quinn. That's just a few recent first rounders. You can't say every pocket passer is better than every mobile qb just because that's what the history was before they allowed mobile qbs to play the position. If 90%of the NFL history was pocket passers guess who's going to win the most super bowls... same goes for race whatever... you can say only 3-4 black qbs won a super bowl but guess when black qbs became a thing in terms of the NFL history??? Maybe mostly the 90s? And maybe 5 them then.

You are a fool then. Vick might be the most dynamic weapon the league has ever seen. Just because something didn't work doesn't mean it couldn't. The league the way the game was played isn't the way it is now. Vick was successful in moderation he won't more than half his games and had good seasons and pro bowl seasons. Stop with the bias.

Dude we went 15-1 what are you talking about just let it go..

Joe Burrow was the number 1 overall pick and almost unanimous by all. Obviously something was special about him to be labeled the best period.

It sounds like you are separating the "running qbs who are successful" from the ones who aren't. For the Vick matter, Vick had one of the most magical runs to the playoffs history. That defeat of the vikings was legendary. His what... was it 2010 with the eagles demonstrated what he was capable of with 20 passing touchdowns 13 ints and 9 more touchdowns on the ground. The jail sentence squandered his golden years...but anyways I would take out burrow and add Hurbert to that category. I'm amazed at how you guys view mobile qbs when your home team had arugablythe greatest dual threat qb of all time and showed the potential with one of the best season from the qb position with no weapons in 2015. We were able to manufacture offense out nothing pretty much and the only reason you didn't get a championship is the front office inability to sign a decent LT and RT.

He's pretty unique as far as finding a comparison. All the things you seem to have a problem with can be coached. I don't think with rhule in his ear every day in practice he's going to be allowed to look at one receiver and run when we wants to. The guy has proven to have above average intelligence so learning shouldn't be a problem. Him running around could have been because the line was bad at Liberty or by design. I dout he goes out there and just runs with the thought in his head.

Ok you guys are going to have to define what a running qb is.the goal is always to be similar to mahomes or Allen.. being faster than them doesn't mean your still trying to be mobile passer..

Yes but I don't think he projected as a top qb because he was undersized didn't have the arm all that stuff. Didn't he go late in the draft?

We're those guys the top projected qb in their class? I mean you can hate all you want but people who do this for a living have the guy a first rounder..he's going top 10.

That doesn't mean he doesn't scramble or run for first downs... does the yardage mean you can't? What's him not getting more than 50 yards mean?

Name a comparison for Newton coming out? There really wasn't one. People like to compare everyone to something but the fact is that isn't always the case. Especially with the NFL evolving the way it is. Guys like Willis probably would have been moved to running back back in the day(Pat White) or WR(Marcus Vick). The dual threat RPO type game really took off with Cam so we are kind of in Uncharted waters with these kinds of guys. I wouldn't say Willis is lightening fast like Vick.. or a giant bruiser like Cam but he's in between... he's Small height wise but very strongly built. His legs are massive and allow him to break a ton of tackles and sacks in the pocket. I think he is unique in that he is more of a power runner than we have seen in smaller guys... We haven't really seen a guy with his style of play and attributes which is why everyone is having a hard time putting him in a box. Speed wise he isn't the fastest but he's more than above average. I say between Kyler and Russ. I want to have him at a 4.47-4.53. I think he's probably about McCaffrey speed in terms of just running a straight line.

Bro really???? Yall think Willis is this slow? Yall are reaching... smh

Don't think cam is faster than willis..Willis... you telling me Willis isn't running a mid 4.5 I think that's a stretch when his on field speed has been timed equal to kyler. His arm is Cam level coming out of college with the ability to change the speed and velocity on his throws which Cam still can't do. We using Ole Miss vs liberty to say he socks? Whole team was over matched.. how many qbs do we take their worst game of the year to define them and say this is who he is as a player..

Brady... has won what more than half the last few super bowls.. HE IS A UNICORN. But I guess we saying mahomes is a pocket passer Russell as well go look at the league bro. Those guys who are deemed pure "pocket passers" are a dying breed. That's not me exaggerating that's look at the starter for each team. Now how long do you think it's going to take for not pocket passers to win?

Here's the thing. Everyone is guessing.. I can point out a million measurements and numbers but that guy could still bust. But* the thing is the same can be said for guys who are deemed pocket passers or complete 70% of their passes whatever. Would I love to find the next Tom Brady sure... The question is how.. Tom Brady was a unicorn.. a needle in a haystack nobody saw coming dropped to the 6th round. Guys with traits that are average or decent are harder to identify as being an elite qbs because they don't stand out. If we are going to take a educated guess as to who the next great qb will be it's easier to spot if he does have freakish traits. Those I can see coming. I could see Josh Allen's all world arm or Staffords generational cannon those thinfd translate... you can't say who will just have some Fitzmagic like Fitzpatrick or so. If you have to make a pick you picking the guy with the traits or the Ole well he was good in college and my gut tells me guy? What can you quantify and show your work so to speak as to why you drafted this guy. That's my thinking..

That's fair... not telling you your wrong just asking your opinion. I'm usually here year round but don't post or comment as much until draft season because I find it fascinating. I enjoy the metric and numbers of it all trying to find out who will be the next Patrick Mahomes and so on. I think your a pretty logical guy and maybe the most respected opinion on the forum. We all want the best possible pick for the franchise I think it's easier to identify that guy if I can put a number,measurement, percentage or time on why a guy is successful. It's easier to find that than say whatever Brady has that just works.. that gift can't really be seen. If so he wouldn't have went in the 6th round.

I think the idea is to have that and then some. Having a rocket arm is 1 trait that allows you to do more than the average qb. When a guy says he can make all the throws it means he has the arm strength and rocket arm to fit throws in contested tight windows. Now that doesn't this is the only way to be successful but with the evolution of the NFL guys getting bigger and faster its important as ever.

A few things here I want to just state my opinion on where we differ. I think Jackson has a good arm.. but Newtons arm coming out dwarfs his in comparison. I think even Willis has a stronger arm than Lamar Jackson. I agree Jackson's accuracy seems better than both at any point. In terms of being more dangerous than Cam as a runner... I dunno what are we judging it on? Rushing yards or nose for the enzone? Are we saying the guy with the all time record for rushing touchdowns isn't as more dangerous than Jackson? I think they are just two different style runners. Newton is Jerome Bettis, Derrick Henry type power runner, while Jackson is Micheal Vick, Barry sanders type speed guy. Hard to compare Newton because we have never seen a quarterback that plays the way he played... I think a guy who has won a MVP.. no matter how is ELITE. Maybe he doesn't fit the brand of football you think wins football games but to beat every other guy in the NFL period to be number 1 even for a year means your damn good at football. I think as long as they have Jackson and a smart ravens front office and he remains healthy they have an above average shot at making the playoffs there for a decent chance at winning a championship.

Your doing the opposite of that tho. Your screaming no every quarterback that is able to run. Like his arm is dead and he will run everything and incapable of thinking between the ears. Basically mobile qb=can't throw. That isn't the case at all Mahomes being a prime example of that. Russell and kyler even more. I'm not expecting Willis to be Cam at all he was a once in a generation player. We have never seen a power rushing qb with a rocket arm and at 250 pounds and maybe never will again. At the least I hope Willis is around hurts at the best I say kyler... no where is he anything like Cam. He is able to change up the speed and velocity on his throws which Cam arguably still can't do which is why every pass is a fastball.

So how do you feel about Lamar Jackson. I have seen your theory of running qbs being silver or and pocket passers gold. How do you view Jackson? Can the raven win the super bowl with Jackson at qb?

This. Everything a qb with mobility gets hurt its because he runs to much. But if it's a pocket passer nobody thinks hey if he could have escaped the pocket it wouldn't have happened

I'm not saying he is the second coming of Jesus either. I have said if I had my Choice I go ickey/neal/ then Willis. In a year where qbs are not looking that great why look for the highest floor lowest ceiling type guy when the chance for not being that great is equal? If I'm at bat I'm going for the home run.. not another teddy Bridgewater is what I'm saying..

Ask yourself that after Brady retires... pocket passer have won the last few basically on the strength of him alone. He's the goat. But what's left is Lamar jackson.Jackson.. Hurbert, Mahomes.Mahomet.. Russell Willson, burrow, and every other I m not a sitting duck in the pocket.

Bo nix was a highly regarded and touted 5 star recruit. He is going to be afforded all the life lines and mistakes any first round pick for a NFL team would male because of the investment, but at the college level. Willis was a athlete and was moved around wasn't even sure to play qb I think he was thought of as a corner.

Bro.. news flash.. the age of the pure pocket passer is over... go look at the top qbs in the league most of them have some kind of movement ability. And having the ability to run doesn't mean that's all you can do. Having more ways to attack a problem is always better than oh I hope this happens.. Every top qb draft in the last I would say 8 years has run atleast a 4.7 or so... the college ranks just aren't pumping out Tom Bradys or Payton mannings anymore. You have the occasional Mac Jones but it's now the outliner instead of the main show. Pocket passers also fail at the next level so it's not just because a guy can run he won't be successful.