tukafan21

My issue with the RAS score is that it's based on these combine tests, which as I've said numerous times, I despise. Even beyond them not wearing pads or doing actual football drills/skills, players don't practice and play in games the same way. Some guys are just gamers, who won't ever test well for whatever reason, but crush it on the field, just as some are the opposite and are workout warriors who look like 1st ballot HOFers Monday thru Saturday but are replacement level players on game day. So losing a step on your 40 yard dash because of injuries doesn't bother me when that player might just be a gamer, who when the lights are on, the adrenaline takes over and they just play at a different speed. Whether it's actual running speed or even just processing speed, it's a thing that some players translate differently to actual games.

It wasn't a specific statement about this draft or anything Morgan has said, it's that this franchise and fan base has fallen in love with high RAS score athletes for the last decade or so and put far too much weight behind pure athletic ability instead of actual football impact.

And this is why I utterly despise the combine I don't understand changing your opinions on players based on them performing non football drills without pads and that being the differentiator in your opinion of a player over 3-4 years of game tape on them. Like I've said before, the combine made more sense a few decades ago when there weren't a hundred HD cameras at every college game, so you get multiple angles of every snap of every player, over the course of their full career. It allowed you to compare players with each other when you didn't have access to all of that dedicated tape on each player. The only thing the combine is good for these days is the interviews and letting teams interview hundreds of players in person without needing to fly around the country for weeks on end. The actual on field drills are nothing more than TV fodder for fans to watch and networks to sell commercial time to make money.

He's still way too much of a raw project for me to be on board with at #8, he's not likely to be an impact player for at least a year or two, he's Burns 2.0, a tweener who is going to need a couple years to add bulk/strength to be able to play edge full time in the NFL. 1 year of actual playing time, edge rusher in a MLB body, seems like a 3-4 defensive player who if/when we switch back to a 4-3 in a year or two after we move on from Evero, won't have a natural position for us at that point either. We need to stop falling in love with high RAS score guys and thinking we're going to turn them into elite players through coaching.

Even if you ignore that Garrett wants to go to a contender, which in itself eliminates us. There is no world where we can put a trade together for Garrett that doesn't include the #8 pick.

who doesn't regularly clear their cache/history? I also don't bookmark every mock draft I see that supports an opinion on a player I don't want so I can use it later, nor am I going to waste any time finding them when I've even said it's not all or even most, just that I'm still seeing him fall that far in some mocks. And either way, the link you provided had just as many 18th or later (with a bunch in the late 20's or early 30's) mocks than 8th or higher, which still proves the same point about the polarization of him with scouts, which is all I've been trying to say anyways. He's a tweener with a low floor and only one year of good college performance, just not the type of player I'm taking the risk on with our depleted roster right now, not hard to understand. Teams already on the edge of playoff contention are who should be taking those type of risks in the 1st round, that's not us.

lol good one We have maybe a few starting worthy defensive players and still no #1 WR, but you want us to take a RB, a position we currently have a player with a Top 10 contract at the position? I get it, you can point to a team like the Lions who have done something similar recently, but they had such a better built out roster when they pulled that trigger to help put them over the top, it's not the pick you make given a team in our current situation. ONLY way I'm considering Jeanty is if we trade down, pick up an extra future 1st, and then he's still there. If that happens I'd be more open to considering it, but likely still wouldn't do it anyways.

How can you say he's an ILB but not a hybrid, when the reason he's moving up draft boards is because of his pass rushing ability? Maybe he's an ILB in a 4-3 who pass rushes more often than not, but to me, that's more of what a 3-4 OLB is, which is also why so many view him as a hybrid, as he's a pass rusher stuck in a MLB's body, which can work just fine in college, but it doesn't always translate to the NFL, and even when it does, it generally takes a few years for them to find their footing.

If we're taking him as an ILB and not an edge pass rusher, then that's a SUPER hard pass for me, as he's not Kuechly, we can't use #8 on an ILB that isn't in that mold of a player. Like I said a few posts ago, he's a tweener who doesn't currently fit a single NFL position, who doesn't haver a lot of game experience yet either, he's a project draft pick, not a day 1 impact starter.

Did you even look down that page before posting it or just look at the average that is skewed because of how many people are predicting us to take him at 8? On the first page of mock drafts, there are a bunch predicting us, likely due to the rumors of us liking him and our need for a pass rusher. But beyond that, there are only 2 other mocks that have him going to another team in the Top 10 and only 1 more before 15th. There are the same number of mocks (on that first page of results) that have him going 18 or later than going in the Top 8. So again, as I've said, he's a polarizing player who is rising on boards more due to athletic ability than game tape and production. We need a Week 1 starter with that pick, not a developmental player like Walker.

He's Burns 2.0 to me, not a true edge and not an off ball linebacker. Or maybe more accurately and more recent, he's the offensive version of XL, someone who had one year of quality play but tests off the charts so you fall in love with him and think you can coach him up He very well could pan out, but he also very well may be a guy who disappears 75% of the time because he's just not a fit for the position he's being put into, and people focus on the 25% of greatness too much. If we had a more built out roster right now, I'd be much more on board with a risk like that, but we're just not there for me to be okay with that right now at #8.

Not remotely accurate, I very well know that mock drafts aren't rankings. As I've said, Walker wasn't viewed as a consensus 1st rounder 2 months ago, let alone a Top 10 guy. He's an athletic freak who teams/scouts are salivating over because of his potential and what they think they can turn him into, not because he's a blue chip prospect. I don't like those kind of players, I utterly despise taking those late risers on draft boards because it's usually about physical traits, not actual football ability. That viewpoint of mine has nothing to do with Walker other than him being that guy in this position right now, but it's how I've always felt about all players in the draft.

I'm not saying he falls to the 2nd in most, but I do regularly (as in multiple times a week) look at mock drafts that have him falling to the 2nd, even if it's only 15% of the mocks, it shows how drastic the opinions are of him. I don't see any of the other "projected Top 10" guys falling into the 2nd in any mocks, sure maybe some fall into the mid teens or even early 20's, but that's the furthest I think I've seen any of them fall. Walker is the picture perfect example of the prospect who moves up draft boards after the NCAA season has ended, because people fall in love with his physical traits more than what he's shown on the field. Those players scare the living daylights out of me, and we're just not in the position as a franchise right now to take those risks in my very honest opinion.

Well duh, everything is an opinion on here. But I'm not talking about the player (and before anyone says it, no, it's not about T-mac either), I'm talking about risk vs reward and we can't keep taking the massive risks in the first few rounds of the draft. I'd rather reach on a player with a higher floor but lower ceiling, or trade down, than take such a raw prospect who's success is going to be more dependent on how well we'll coach them up vs how good they already are.

Love how the consensus on here is a player I've regularly seen fall into the 2nd round in mock drafts but everyone here is sold on him at #8. I'm not saying he will or should fall to the 2nd, but it shows how drastically different opinions are on him, just not the type of prospect (position/player aside) that I'd like to see us take in the Top 10, we can't keep taking risks on low floor uber high ceiling type of guys, it's how we keep putting ourselves behind the 8 ball in building out our roster

So........ Bryce Young but a better NFL QB skillset?

oh really? Then yea, this is him, no doubt in my mind about it, just the things he's said and how he's reacted to people saying things about Hunter, it's exactly like Cam used to do it, to a T

Any team that looks at him being a better CB than WR, at his size (he's only 185 lbs), and the wear and tear he's already had, and thinks making him a WR is his best chance at having a long healthy career, would only be hurting themselves. I don't think any team would ever consider making him a full time WR only. Why would you play someone at their lesser position when their size makes them more susceptible to injury at that position than their other one which they're already better at? Even if the NFL made him choose one position to be listed at for the combine because he has to be in only one group for going through all the non position specific stuff, he still chose to be a CB, because he knows that's his better side of the ball.

I haven't seen him around in a while, but that account linked there also isn't the one he used the last year or so, there is I think an extra "a" in that one, you can see it says he hasn't been online in almost a year there, which obviously, the person we're talking about has been.

Here's what I think the T-Mac vs Hunter (as a WR) really breaks down to............... They are polar opposites in just about every way imaginable. Hunter is a smaller uber athlete who is good because of his raw physical freak nature. T-Mac is a large human being who is good because of his insane fundamental talent. Hunter put up insane stats because of the offense around him, T-Mac put up insane stats in spite of the offense around him. Hunter has a chance to be great because he's a rare type of physical talent but needs to be taught the intricacies of the position. T-Mac has a chance to be great because he already does the things a WR needs to do well (mainly route running and his vice grip hands), but needs to improve in some of the physical areas, such as short area foot speed. If neither improves upon their weaknesses, it will hurt Hunter more because in the NFL, everyone is a freak athlete and if you can't do the little things at an elite level, you lose your edge. If T-Mac doesn't improve on his short area foot speed (i.e. improve his get off at the snap and his burst out of cuts in his routes for separation), he can still become a true elite possession and downfield jump ball WR, basically exactly who Mike Evans is. If Hunter never played CB and solely focused on playing WR, then sure, maybe he improves on those things over the past 3 years and he's a better prospect because of it, the truth is we'll never know. But the fact remains is that he hasn't, it doesn't matter if it's because he spends so much time playing CB, it's just where he is as a player right now. And since he's still just a better prospect as a CB, it's a fools errand to say he has Jefferson potential as he's never going to be a full time WR, he'll be either part time at both or a full time CB.

I thought this an hour or so myself, he talks very much like Cam did all season about Hunter and has the same reactions and type of responses he had all season long anytime someone said anything about Hunter not being the greatest football player since the dawn of time.

That's what I was going to say too, he'd have been right there in contention with Odunze as the 3rd WR off the board. And you're correct, people are already forgetting Thomas Jr the prospect due to the season he had, just like people forget that Justin Jefferson was the 5th WR taken and the 22nd pick, not some surefire can't miss possible GOAT type of player that he's already turned into.

This is LITERALLY the reason we're where we are at as a franchise, because we keep drafting guys with off the charts RAS scores but are raw and not as actually skilled on the field and don't end up panning out. Again, I'm not saying that's going to be the case with Hunter, but it's what you're describing here. There is this misconception amongst fans that anything can be just taught to physically talented players once they get to the NFL, but that is woefully flawed, if not just downright wrong. It's actually very difficult to teach things to players once they reach the NFL, but what good coaching can do is take the players who already can do it, and make them better at it. You can improve a players foot speed and ability to get into and out of cuts on their routes to create separation. But you can't as easily teach the player to be a precise route runner who has the instincts needed to do it at a high level. Which is why I put more weight behind the things T-Mac does well than Hunter, because T-Mac is an elite player more due to his skills where Hunter is one more due to his athleticism. If you can't see the difference between those things, it's a you problem, but it's very real and accurate. But what you can't argue is that it's exactly what has messed the Panthers up so much over the years by leaning into the high RAS score athletes who are raw as actual players and expecting us to be able to coach them up.

He has better hands, significantly larger catch radius (like absurdly so), and better at 50/50 balls for a start, while he also already runs a more full route tree that is already at an NFL level. And before you say Hunter does those things well, I'm not saying he doesn't, but T-Mac is just better at them, just like Hunter is better at some things as well, such as pure speed/quickness and his ability to separate (and yes, separation and route running are two separate things, you can be a poor route runner but elite separator due to quick twitch ability). T-Mac has 3 legitimate weaknesses, 2 of which are easily improved upon in the NFL with proper coaching, with the 3rd just being due to his size and is a trade off for what you get from his size. His get off at the snap and separation are two things that with coaching and just growing as a player, will get better. Particularly because he's already an elite route runner, he just needs to improve his first couple steps after cutting to get that extra half step of separation. His raw top end speed will always be what it is, it's not elite like Hunter, but it's MORE than fast enough to be successful in the NFL, particularly due to all his other positives. As I've noted before, he was clocked at 20.8 MPH (I think this was the number, not going back to find it right now though) during his first 2 seasons in college, which would have been the 8th fastest a player was clocked in an NFL game this past season. You're taking these responses in this thread as if people are saying Hunter is a bum who couldn't cut it in the NFL as a WR if his life depended on it. But we're really just saying he's a better CB prospect than WR, but even as a WR he's probably the 2nd or 3rd best prospect in the draft and still a 1st round pick. We're also pointing out that you just can't ignore the wear and tear that his already thin frame has been put through by playing both ways for 3 years and the very legitimate concern about how he'll hold up long term in the NFL because of it, even if he only plays one side of the ball moving forward.

AND THERE IT IS Thank you, because you posted this as I was typing up my previous response and you did EXACTLY what I said the Hunter defenders do. You're taking people having very legitimate concerns about how part of his game will translate to the NFL and making it into someone talking bad about him as a college player. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING Go back and read every post I made about him this year, I consistently said he's a true generational collegiate talent, one of the rarest of them all. But that doesn't mean jack squat when it comes to evaluating what kind of player he'll be in the NFL, or even just what position is best for him. If you want to think differently, that's totally fair, but pointing to things like stats and awards is just making you look like you don't know what you're talking about, because they don't mean anything. There are so many instances of players putting up elite stats in college but couldn't sniff being even a serviceable NFL player. Which again, isn't what myself or others are saying about Hunter, but it's just the proof that looking at stats/awards is a fools errand when projecting NFL potential and impact.