tukafan21

Lamar will not last long term in this league, his style of play with his body type isn't going to hold up. He wasn't even worth the contract the Ravens had to give him, let alone what someone would have needed to trade away on top of it to even get him. I'm quite convinced that his deal will look terrible before this contract is up, he has a year or two left before the hits start adding up and his play drops off dramatically. Hell, let's see if he's even able to finish THIS season healthy, this is about the time of year he has been getting hurt and can't finish the season each of the last couple years.

I'm torn, while I'd love to get him in the end, it's going to get REALLY ugly for that to happen. Next year is already a lost year I think, Bryce isn't the guy. That means we'll either have to suffer through 2 more awful years of Bryce, or we try to replace him after next season and his replacement is so bad that we still end up with the #1 pick in 2026. Honestly, our best path to both getting Manning and still improving the team in 2025 is to get lucky by trying to replicate what the Bears are doing this year. Trade down with our 2025 pick with a team we predict will be terrible in 2025, get their 2025 and 2026 first rounders, and then hope we keep improving in 2025 but end up getting the #1 pick in 2026 from that other team. Basically what the Cardinals were trying to do this year by trading for the Texans 2024 1st in their trade down with them in this past draft for #3. Near impossible to pull off, but I'd be willing to trade down in 2025 if there isn't a clear QB for us to take and attempt it.

The problem is I think the Falcons take a massive step forward next season in this regard. They're going to replace Smith with a real coach, and then maybe trade for someone like Fields. While I don't think Fields is a good passer, putting him with a good offensive coach along with Bijan, Pitts, and London could be very scary team. And even if it's not Fields, with the weapons they have on offense, they just need to find the HC and QB and they're cooking with gas. They should be a very attractive destination for a HC if/when they fire Smith, those weapons aren't something most HC openings have.

Meh I think Williams is a truly elite talent, but I have a feeling he is going to be a head case, and not in the way a Cam Newton was, where he was quirky but it didn't cause locker room problems. That he's already coming out and saying there are only a handful of teams he's interested in playing for and that he wants ownership stake in any team that drafts him. Even if he knows he won't get that and can't pick his team and was just talking pie in the sky stuff, the fact that the consensus #1 pick is even talking about that stuff in jest (if it even is that), is just a concerning state of mind to me. No, I wouldn't pass on him if given the chance to take him without another elite prospect available, but if there was anyone even close (like Maye this year), I might go with the guy who seems to have his head on his shoulders more than Williams.

I put it in a thread last night, but here's what I'd do. First step is there has to be a per year number that he'd agree to, but I won't even guess on that number as pure money alone won't help attract a top candidate, it's the structure of the deal that is needed to entice someone to take on this situation. While the contract will likely be in the 7 year range, there is a 3 year guarantee of his job status so he knows he won't get axed after 1 bad season of Bryce or a follow up bad season with a rookie QB he drafts to replace Bryce. He gets 1 completely free season in year 1 to evaluate and make a decision on if he wants Bryce (which will likely end up being a no in the end). He then gets to select the QB of his choosing with our 2025 pick (or trade for one, whatever he wants to do, and he gets to pick the QB, not Tepper, not a GM). He then gets 2 FULL seasons to show he is building to something and that he can be competitive moving forward. That's the crux of the issue, since all HC contracts are guaranteed anyways, how you provide him an actual guarantee that he will get the 3 full years (which is basically the only way to get a highly qualified candidate to be willing to come here). So there is a poison pill in the contract that if Tepper fires him before the final game of the 3rd season, he not only still gets his full contract paid out, but an immediate $100-200 million payment upon the firing. You could also put something in there that if he gets a certain number of wins in year 3, the same poison pill clause gets extended to guarantee a 4th season (such as if he gets 7 wins or better in year 3, that clause gets extended for another season). No, it couldn't stop him from firing him before that point, but no way in hell is he going to fire him and pay that out, it's an essential guarantee of 3 years to show improvement.

Aside from the question of if Bill has anything left to even be worth trying to get, how has nobody brought up that he's still under contract with the Patriots for a while? Which means we'd have to trade for him... we don't have the draft picks to adequately re-stock the roster, we can't be giving out high draft picks for a soon to be 72 year old coach who may or may not still have what it takes to turn this team into a winner. Even if the Patriots want to move on from him (which in itself would be a sign that it's a bad idea) and they don't demand a 1st for him like the Saints did for Payton, I'm guessing they'd want our 2nd rounder this year for him. There's probably only a small handful of current HC's that I'd be willing to give up that 2nd pick to get, and Bill sure as hell ain't one of them. Shannahan, Siriani, and McDaniel would probably be the extent of my list that I'd trade a draft pick for. Sure, there are plenty of other great HC's out there that I'd love to get, but if we were trading away good picks, you have to factor in things like age (so no to an Andy Reid) and likelihood of still wanting to coach for a long time (so no McVay has he's already been rumored to be wanting to move to the TV studio in the near future).

Patience with someone's job status in the NFL isn't necessarily the same thing as having patience. He pushed the front office and coaches to make moves to win immediately, instead of letting them build up a team the right way over a course of a number of years. I don't even think that's a bad thing to have in an owner, love that he wants to win that badly. But we need to have the staff and coaches in place who can and will push back on him when and where needed to do it right. You don't win in the NFL through quick fixes, just doesn't work that way, too many moving parts. The only way he gets a good HC or GM candidate to come here is if he GUARANTEES 2024 has no impact on his job status and they are allowed to replace Bryce with a QB of their choosing, and then GUARANTEES they get at least 2 seasons to prove themselves. If you can somehow convince them of that, we could get a realistic candidate to come here, maybe some sort of poison pill clause in the contract that if Tepper doesn't hold up his end, the coach gets a $100 million payout on top of an already big contract. It would let the HC/GM know they have 3 years to prove themselves, not to make decisions based on an immediate impact, but a year or two down the line. They could then play Bryce all season to see if they think they can do anything with him and not be concerned about getting fired if they keep losing while ending up with a high draft pick for a new QB.

Just ranking the QB's on who I'd want, compensation aside, it was Richardson, Stroud, Levis, Young. Once we made the trade though, it had to be Stroud or Young because Richardson and Levis were much riskier picks, just higher upside, and you can't take that swing up to #1 to take the risk on either of them. But once I watched more of each of the two, for me it was Stroud without question, solely on that Bryce showed no physical traits that could be even considered above average, let alone elite. Sure, his brain may be next level (which it doesn't appear to be on the field so far), but you can coach up that side of things, elite physical traits are something you either have or don't, the other guys did, Bryce doesn't.

I want whatever is best for this team come the 2025 season, the problem is I have no idea what that will be. Next season is already a waste, Bryce has to be the starter and we're not winning with him there. So I'm already looking at 2025 If winning a few extra games this year somehow convinces a good candidate to actually come here, then I'm all for it. If losing out ensures we get stuck with crap options and Tepper is forced to make change again in 2025 when we have a top draft pick to use to lure a good HC candidate here, then I'm all for that.

Honestly, Tabor coming in and looking competent, getting wins, but more importantly getting the players to show they care, could be what saves this franchise in a weird and morbid way. Tabor isn't the permanent solution, but if he does that and the fans like him, such as with Wilkes last year, it could be the cover Tepper needs to fire another HC after next season so we can try and use a Top 3 pick to lure a new HC that we'd actually want. I don't think we can fire another HC after next year, but hiring the interim the fans liked is about the only way he can then fire the HC after next season goes poorly and not get destroyed in the media for doing it 3 years in a row. They'll look at it and say he went with the interim since things looked good once he took over, like he maybe should have done the year before, but then after a full season it showed he wasn't the guy and it was fair to look to replace him.

Wow, I don't even want to try and compute this one in my head, it's only going to make me sadder. The whole point of hiring this staff was because of their QB guru statuses, if him being wrong on Wentz is what caused him to not fight against drafting a HS sized QB, then it just makes me even sadder over this whole thing. I like Bryce, he's a good kid, but he's just not an NFL QB and I think he and his people always knew it, and it's why they didn't let him throw at the combine. Letting him throw back-to-back with the rest of the prospects would have exposed the hell out of him, when QB's projected to go undrafted looked better throwing the same passes.

If this was a Manning or Lawrence type of rookie year, tons of losses and turnovers, but showing serious flashes of elite potential multiple times in every game of the season, then yes, you're correct. But he has literally, maybe 2 or 3 plays this entire season where you would say, "okay, that was an above average play" and I honestly don't think he's had one play where I said, "that was an elite QB play" While at the same time he's had numerous examples every single week, hell, every half or even every quarter, where you look at the play and say, "how did that guy even get to the NFL, let alone be the #1 pick" He has no arm, he has to have an absolutely picture perfect clean pocket and set base to step into the throw to even have even moderately adequate arm strength, he can't throw anything near an NFL necessary throw if he's off balance, and that's a serious problem in today's NFL. The people still trying to defend him and say it's the system, coaches, or WRs, are the ones who are stuck to their preconceived notions that he can be a good QB in this league. Yes, those things don't help and he'd look better if they improved, but he's not an elite franchise QB and he never will be, that much is clear after watching him for 12 weeks.

Right now, we have almost zero chance of hiring a HC that we actually will want. We want a young up and coming offensive coach, those guys worked their whole lives to get a shot at being a HC and most only get the 1 chance, they're not wasting it on Bryce, they'll take other jobs or wait another season. The majority of the fan base will not be happy with whoever our new HC is, I'm quite confident in saying that because I honestly don't think anyone the majority would want is going to be willing to take the job and be tied to Bryce. We're most likely going to end up with someone like Bienemy who nobody has ever wanted to hire because players don't like him, or a re-tread like Flores, who also nobody actually wants for the same reason, players don't like him. Those type of coaches are best as coordinators, because they are smart football people who work for well liked HC's who are able to get the players to play hard for them. Again, Patrick Mahomes HATED Bienemy, if you can't get along with the current player who has the best chance at catching Brady's GOAT status, then you're the problem. Our best chance at having an HC during the 2025 season that we actually would want, is to hire one going into that season. We also can't fire a coach in 3 straight seasons, not with how much of a mess this franchise is currently. Thus, the only way I see us having a HC in 2025 that we actually want, is to fire Reich next season and align the new HC hire with having a Top 3 pick. Firing Reich is playing the short game, keeping him for one more year is playing the long game. We've been playing the short game since Tepper bought the team and it's only caused us to keep moving further backwards, we needed to play the long game for once and do things the right way. Neither Tepper nor the fans want to do that, everyone wants to be good ASAP again, but that's not how good NFL teams are built, you have to do it from the ground up the right way. I very much think firing Reich right now is 1 step forward but 3 steps back and we're going to end up with a bum of a HC for at least 2, if not the next 3 seasons because Tepper can't fire another HC that quickly. Honestly, if that happens (which is probably a better than 50/50 chance at happening), will you look back on firing Reich as the smart move? And yes, I get your point about Bryce, but that ship has sailed, his absolute max potential is a serviceable game manager who is around the 20th best QB in the league (and frankly, I don't even think he'll be that, I personally think his best outcome is a career backup somewhere, but out of the league within 5 years is more likely). That's not a franchise QB in today's game, that's someone you use as a bridge to your next hopeful franchise QB, I really don't care about trying to develop him next year, he isn't the guy and we can't make decisions based on Bryce, we need to make it about what our actual future will be, and he will be gone by 2026 before his rookie deal is even up.

I think we all know Reich wanted Stroud while Tepper wanted Bryce. What I want to know and what matters to me, is how much did he and the other staff members try to fight for Stroud vs how much they just let Tepper make the decision. If they REALLY fought for Stroud but Tepper literally and 100% forced the decision of Bryce, then yes, Tepper is who I fault. If they were just like, "Well we prefer Stroud, but we're okay with Bryce too" and that then made the pick Bryce, then I blame Reich and the rest of the staff. There are VERY few owners in the league who completely stay out of football operations and don't voice their opinions, especially when it comes to taking a QB at #1 overall, even more so after the trade we made. So people getting upset at Tepper being in the room and voicing his opinion are missing the point, 90% of the other owners in the league would be doing the same thing. It really comes down to how voiceful Reich and the staff pushed back on it, and that I'm not sure we'll ever know.

What do you expect him to say? Half the people in the building never wanted Bryce and think he's a bust, the other half were okay with taking him but maybe split on Bryce vs Stroud preference? You can't get upset for him saying things people don't believe, Bryce is a Panther, he's not going to say even a single person in the building isn't behind him.

No, because I think it was a shortsighted mistake to fire him. I still contend that we won't get anyone we actually want, as any good up and coming HC candidate isn't going to risk their HC future on Bryce. Our best bet was to keep Reich into next season and then fire him a month into the season. Then when we end up with a Top 3 pick in the 2025 draft, you can attract a new coach at that point by telling them they can draft a QB to replace Bryce with the pick and leave the decision 100% up to them. THAT's how you get someone like a Ben Johnson. We'll either end up with a sub-par new HC who Tepper will be too afraid to fire after one season because of how bad it will look to do it 3 years in a row or he'll actually fire them and then even the good candidates aren't going to come work for a guy that just forced the Bryce decision and fired 3 HC's in 3 years. That only worked out for the Texans because one of the hottest names in the HC cycle was one of the Texans best players in franchise history and wanted to be there, we don't have that option. Tepper cut off his nose to spite his face here, for once we needed to just embrace the suck and play for the 2025 #1 pick and use that to attract a high quality HC candidate. Firing Rhule was the smart decision and it re-set the franchise, but they then didn't go about a proper re-set, they tried to game the system and only made it worse. But the trade and subsequent drafting of Bryce set the franchise back 3-4 years. Firing Freich now just set us back an additional 2 more years, rather than staying with the 3-4 window it would still be if we stuck with Reich and did a full re-set after 2024.

Very hard no on both Flores and Bienemy (and don't @ me with crap about them both being black, has absolutely NOTHING to do with it) This team is broken, we need a unifier as our next HC, someone who can rally the troops and get them to run through a brick wall to get the job done. Both Flores and Bienemy are well known for causing problems in their own building, their players hate playing for them, and are successful OC's because they're good football minds, but it's their HC's that the players want to play hard for, not the OC's that they can't stand. Sometimes those coaches work out, but it's not the right fit for this situation right now. I also don't think we can get a Ben Johnson type right now, a young, up and coming offensive minded coach isn't risking their HC future on Bryce. But what we need is to replicate what Detroit has done though, find a HC like Campbell, someone who may not be the most innovative coaching mind out there, but someone who is a leader of men, someone who players will rally behind. Then find a young innovative mind to be his OC, which I think is much more reasonable for someone to be willing to take on than our HC opening.

Tua is 6'1" and 227 lbs, he had more of a frame to add bulk and muscle, and he's still has a bottom half of the league QB in terms of arm strength himself. Bryce is just flat out small, he's only going to get so strong. He could fix a lot of his problems and become an average QB in this league (I don't think he will, but it's not impossible). But he will never have even league average arm strength, I honestly don't think it's even one that's up for debate with Bryce's future, it's just a fact at this point. The league is filled with strong armed QBs, they may not be great QB's, but they have the arm for it. Of the usual starters in the league right now (so not backups starting at the moment), who is even close to Bryce's arm strength in regards to weakness right now? Maybe Pickett? Purdy? Love? And even they have stronger arms, how much do you think he can improve there when the league is filled with guys who can toss it 60 yards with a flick of the wrist when that's a full body max heave for Bryce? Bryce has no fastball and you need to be able to zip it into tight windows more than 5 yards down the field to be a wining QB in the NFL today. Obviously he'd do better if he had guys like Tyreek and Waddle, but fact remains that Bryce has a noodle for an arm, it's clear as day on his throws, he doesn't have remotely close to the zip needed at this level. He could turn his career around and be an average starter, but he'll be doing it with below average arm strength.

I actually wouldn't have been against seeing him as the interim, he has a great football mind and he's great at knowing what is about to happen. So sure, if he had agreed to do that, I'd have been curious to see how the team would respond to him and what he'd do with Bryce. But not a fan of hiring him in the offseason unless we really can't get any quality candidates interested for the job, rather see someone else fail than Olsen

What?!?! That's absolutely what you can do, especially given the situation we were in with those seasons. Same reason people are saying the Vikings maybe shouldn't bring Jefferson back this year, same reason Rodgers won't come back to the Jets if they don't have a real playoff shot, even if ready. We needed a long term solution at QB, we were already out of playoff contention and looking at a Top 10 pick. Playing CMC only increases our chances of winning meaningless games in the final month of the season while also putting him at further risk. Sitting him was actually the competitive move, because you were playing for the better draft pick for a shot at a franchise QB.

On a CMC note, is he a HOF lock by the end of next season already? Was just looking at it, he has 76 career TD's already, seems pretty safe to say he'll get to 90 by the end of next season, likely passing it by a fair amount (assuming health of course). There's only 5 players with 90 or more career TDs and aren't either in the HOF already, or just aren't eligible but are for sure shoe-in's when the time comes. Shaun Alexander, Ricky Watters, Priest Holmes, Marshawn Lynch, and Lynch probably has a fair shot at getting in. CMC is better than any of those players, so I have to think there is a chance he already has his HOF jacket wrapped up by the end of next season, hell, he could get to 100 by then with the way he's racking up scores in SF at more than a 1 per game rate.

None of the 3 big moves in the last 2 years are hindsight is 20/20 The CMC trade, the #1 pick trade, the Bryce selection were all things that 90% of the casual fans could look at and immediately say it was a horrible decision. It's baffling that we did all 3 of those things in a year and a half span to completely tank this franchise's future.

He was never perpetually banged up, 2 years in a row of getting hurt for a few weeks and then being shelved because you're a star player on a team already eliminated from the playoffs doesn't equate to being "perpetually banged up" Again, the first year injury was a player falling on his ankle while trying to tackle him as he dragged the guy into the end zone and he got a high ankle from it. I don't remember the injury the second year off the top of my head, but even if it was a non contact muscle pull, that would make it one time in his career, not an ongoing thing like it is with Horn or other actually injury prone players. He's played in every game of the season in 5 of his 7 seasons in the league, but sure, he's perpetually banged up

Exactly, I was always against trading CMC because his injuries were just bad luck things (like when the guy rolled up on his ankle as he was going into the end zone and gave him the high ankle sprain) and not a bunch of non contact injuries that pile up year after year (like Horn). Plus, he 100% could have and would have played at the end of both seasons if we were in even the slightest contention, so he missed more games than necessary because there was no point in throwing him back out there to risk injury or hurting draft position in a lost season. But even if we were to trade him, we get a TERRIBLE package in return. I understand how the chart works and how all the picks added up to a first round value, but that's basically like saying you're good taking 100 $1 items and hoping you can sell every single one for the dollar and make the same $100 that you could have gotten in return from 1 item. Trading CMC for anything less than a first, let alone a late 2nd rounder being the best pick in the trade, was beyond atrocious

Even as bad as everything else is around him, he just can't make simple NFL level throws. And I don't even mean the wow plays that elite QB's make, I just mean simple throws such as from one hash to the far sideline on a rope to get there before the defender can break it up. I don't care how much you improve the rest, when the kid just doesn't have the arm to make throws that 95% of back-ups in the league have the arm to make, he's never going to succeed at a high level, no matter how much is fixed around him. Also what made him successful in college as his ability to feel the rush and step around it to make plays on the move. The problem is he's not quick or fast enough to avoid NFL level pass rushers, and all they have to do is get one hand on him and he's then not strong enough to break free. Everyone kept talking about how he was able to do it in the SEC, so he could do it in the NFL. But I remember making a thread a while back about that, even in the SEC, outside of a couple teams, most teams have at most 1 or 2 NFL level defenders, so he never regularly had to avoid NFL quality pass rushers.