tukafan21

Just went and looked at his contract, looks like we're probably stuck with him for next year as well, it would cost us about $750k of the cap to cut him. And I don't mean that would be the dead cap hit, that means his dead cap hit is about $750k higher than his cap hit if on the team. Even with as bad as he's been, I can't see them using $8.4 million of the cap next year to ask him to leave, just pay the 7.7 Million to have him be the most expensive backup in the league (and then eat the $3 million dead cap to cut him after next season).

Thielen - A+ Hurst and Chark - D+ Sanders - D- And you left one out... Dalton - A Dalton has more than done his job in being there to mentor Bryce, help him learn how to be a QB in this league, and then step in and play if/when needed. Chark might get a C- if just based on his play itself, but when taken into account that he was given $6 million and supposed to be our #1 on the outside, D+ might even be too generous. Same with Sanders, he's been a D- on the field, but take into account his contract and it's an actual F

I think it was less about trying to freeze the kicker than it was just trying to time the snap perfectly to try and get the block for the win, especially the second one after we got the 15 yarder, at that point the FG was a gimme anyways. So if you don't guess the snap and are offsides, either he still makes it and it doesn't matter, or he misses/blocked because of the offsides and he has to try again. But if you happen to guess perfectly on the snap, you have a chance at a block to win the game, just no downside to trying to guess it and get lucky. The mistake was by the refs blowing the second one dead, should have just let it go and it would have been over since he made it anyways.

He had his best game of the year and has been improving lately, no denying that. But I still don't see him being an upper echelon QB in this league though, especially with these hits he's taking. Sure, give him all the credit in the world for keeping bouncing back up, but look what the continued hits did to someone like Cam, Bryce won't hold up long term if he keeps taking 4-6 huge hits a game. With him improving though, I may not think he'll be the complete bust I thought he would be a month ago, I'm now reverting back to my pre-draft thoughts of what he'd become. Around the 20th best QB in the league, someone not good enough to carry teams to true SB contention but probably not bad enough for us to cut bait and move on from him. I said before the draft that I thought he'd end up being the Marvin Lewis of QB's, I think that still looks like his ceiling to me.

What about him? I'm still convinced he'll end up on the Bengals before the trade deadline is up, pairing him back up with Burrow/Chase to see if they can help unlock his potential makes too much sense.

If/when we franchise him, if we can't come to a contract by training camp, he can't play a down for us again. Cause we sure as hell won't tag him twice, so if we can't get a deal done with him by then, he just has to be traded for whatever we can get. Which, in turn, is why he just should be traded right now. We couldn't come to a deal with him before all this, I don't see us coming to one at any point down the line, need to get a good return for him and just move on. Also can't look at what we turned down last year and make decisions based on that, sunk cost that we can't go back and do, have to make the best possible decision with the situation at hand currently.

How can we turn down the offer last year, then not get a deal done this offseason, only to now not even be listening to offers?!?!?! It makes no sense, only thing I can think of is that they're saying that hoping someone will make a stupid offer to test our resolve and then jump on it, but that seems like a losing strategy

Not really, we could have afforded him if we waited on getting a #1 instead of giving Chark his contract. Once we did that, we couldn't justify the cost plus lack of snaps it would have given TMJ and Mingo. But now that we see TMJ is a total bust and Chark is kinda trash, it's different, particularly with how poor Bryce as looked, we need to get him improving THIS season and not wait till next.

Technically not true based on the title of the thread Bucs play Thursday

He's a worse version of Thielen, would be completely pointless for us to add him. We need outside and speed WRs, the literal opposite of what he is

No CMC had years of never missing games and playing at a HOF level while doing so. Horn hasn’t shown near enough on the field or enough health to slow walk a recovery to try and force a trade. Also, I never felt CMC did that, I thought at the end of both seasons is was more likely the team that shut him down, why risk further injury and hurt our draft position for him to play in a couple meaningless late season games.

No trading a first round pick for anyone until we know what Bryce can be and we're sure we aren't about to be picking in there Top 5 or 10 the year we trade the pick away. Trading a future first for DK would screw us over if Bryce still sucks and it ends up a Top 5 pick as that could either replace Bryce or take whoever is the top WR in that draft (assuming there is one worth it and there usually is) and get them on a fraction of the contract as DK. If we get the 2 firsts for Burns, I'd have no problem sending out one of them though, just not our own until we're sure Bryce is the QB of the future. If we end up in a Josh Rosen/Kyler Murray situation we absolutely bail on Bryce.

DK won't be made available during the season. But if JSN balls out the rest of the year, I could see a scenario where they trade DK in the offseason. He's going to want a new contract after 2024, and if they think JSN can be their new #1, he could be the Tyreek/Brown type of player who becomes available because their existing team doesn't want to dish out a Top 3 WR contract.

Unless that "something" is a future 1st or Burns, there is no way the Lions even pick up the phone. He was their first round pick last year who has shown immense potential in his limited playing time, they're not trading him for TMJ. The only scenario I could see us being able to pry him from them would be Burns + Chark (since he was there last year) for Williams and picks. But even that is more of a pipe dream since they are going to need to give an extension to Hutchinson after next season and that would be a lot of money to tie up in two DE's as opposed to having a potentially elite WR on a rookie deal.

I'd bet that Palmer is re-signed and likely Allen too on a slight hometown discount. Palmer seems to have a nice connection with Herbert, I don't think they'll want to break that up. I also want nothing to do with Williams, great talent and is absolutely a game changer, but the guy is a walking injury waiting to happen. Even when he's not missing games and able to play, he's constantly banged up and not going into games at 100%. Plus, he'll turn 30 a month into next season, he's older than you'd think at first guess. I'd rather go after someone like Courtland Sutton who would be cheaper and a year younger

Only need to pick one, game changer. What I was talking about there was purely in regards to "overpaying" for someone, and if we do that, they need to be young enough to be here a while. But I'm fine spending market value for a game changer who might be in their late 20's or even 30, I just wouldn't "overspend" for someone at that age. Essentially I'm saying I'd be fine overspending for someone like Higgins or even a Devonta Smith if the Eagles decide they don't want to, or just can't, pay for 2 big dollar WRs (not saying I think he'll specifically be available, but those type of players have become available in recent offseasons like Tyreek or Brown). But if someone like a Davante Adams was willing to come here and not complain and be a distraction, I wouldn't have issue paying market value even though he's older, as it's less about paying for the WR as much as it is paying for Bryce's development.

Diggs wants to win and catch a ton of passes, not one without the other. Right now we literally are the worst fit in the NFL for him, we suck and we don't have the QB to get him the ball the way he'd like. It would go down like the Hindenburg, and that's before even considering the fact that there is no trade we could make with the Bills to make them do that.

It's just simply that he's a savvy vet who puts in the work in the film room, he's able to recognize coverages and knows how to run his routes to find the space. Nothing tricky about it, it's why we signed him, so he could hopefully also be a partial coach to the young WRs and teach him everything he's learned over his career.

It rarely happens because franchise tagged players almost always end up playing on the tag or signing an extension to stay. Burns isn’t going to play on the tag when he almost sat this season to begin with, and I don’t think he wants to come back at this point or he’d have signed already, I think he wants out.

It was 3rd in my list of where cap room get spent, WR, OG, then pass rusher to fill what we lose by trading Burns We can’t fix all our problems in one offseason and if I have to pick between the two, I’d rather have WR fixed than pass rushing as we’re still not going to be contenders next year, while Bryce’s development is our top priority.

In no world will we trade him for two 2nd's, just won't happen. I also don't see any scenario where we give him the $30 million a season at this point, if we were both willing to agree to that number, he'd already have been signed. Remember, there always is a scenario where we put the non-exclusive franchise tag on him and he can't find the contract he's looking for and ends up re-signing with us for much less than we were trying to get him to sign for this past offseason. That scenario is also why I fully expect us to get the 2 first value for him in the offseason, I think we rubbed him the wrong way and he's already made the call in his mind that he's not coming back here. So if push comes to shove and he's not getting the contracts he's wanting out there, if he's willing to take a deal for say $25 million a season from someone else, it will make giving up the 2 firsts for him easier for some other team. I think Panthers fans have a tendency to view him in a worse light because he's not putting up stupid sack numbers yet this year, but they're disregarding that teams entire offensive gameplan is around slowing him down since we don't have enough other playmakers on defense for teams to worry about. He's still widely regarded as an elite pass rusher around the league, that in the end will make a difference as well, like the rest of our players we've sent away recently, people will just assume we used him wrong.

I think our fan base actually undervalues what his true NFL open market value would be, particularly to a team with a defense with other great pieces. He's stuck on a team right now that is constantly playing from behind, doesn't have another pass rusher, and is struggling in the secondary. Put him on a team with players at those positions and it will give him less double teams and more time to get to the passer, he'll dominate. I think in the end, the most likely scenario is that we end up getting a 2 first round equivalent for him, but maybe not 2 firsts. And by that I mean a first plus a really good player for him, or maybe a 1st, 2nd, and a good non WR One possibility is like you said, the Eagles, where I could see them wanting to only pay 1 of their WRs and instead of signing one of them to an extension, they trade Smith to not have to extend him at a big number. If JSN comes on strong in the second half of the season, I could see the Seahawks parting with DK and a 1st potentially. I think they'd be more likely to trade Lockett in the offseason, but he's not one I think we'd have interest in, which is really the only reason I said DK there. For all I know, neither of those teams would be interested in trading those WRs, but I'm guessing someone out there will be willing to give up a First and a WR for a pass rusher with Burns' potential. I also still see a very real possibility of a trade with the Bengals, they could tag Higgins so they can trade him, we could swap Burns for Higgins and a late 1st at that point much easier than we could in-season before the deadline.

Again, as has been explained many times before, 2 firsts mid-season is going to be tough to get again, because nobody will be sure they can get him signed to a long term deal. But it costs 2 firsts to sign a franchise tagged player, and there is about a 95% chance someone will sign him if we put the non-exclusive tag on him, and that might be a low estimate. Teams will look at the cost of 2 firsts as totally fair when they're doing it because they were already able to work out a long term deal with him and know they have him locked up. Hence why if we can't get that for him by the deadline, I said we should wait to trade him in the offseason.

name one non-realistic suggestion I made in there... I'll save you the time, there isn't one. They might not be able to accomplish everything I put there, but there isn't one thing that isn't reasonable or would work within our cap limit. Literally the "craziest" idea is trading Burns for a WR + 1st or 2 Firsts, both of which are very reasonable. And if you say it's not realistic because you don't trust Fitterer or Tepper to make the moves, that also doesn't count because the whole point is they keep screwing up, they need to just make the easy and obvious choices in front of them for a change, which are the things I proposed here.

None of what I said is a quick fix and I suggested keeping/re-signing more players than I suggested trading. I'm only recommending trading 2 players, one we can't re-sign and one who is a bust who is dropping passes the few times he gets on the field. The one we can't re-sign has the type of value that in a trade, it will help us fill our biggest hole and the #1 priority this team has, getting Bryce a #1 WR to help his development. At this point, trading a pass rusher for a WR is just better for this team, much easier to find pass rushing through a rotation of players than it is to get elite WR performance, as we've seen. I said in there I don't want to trade Chinn, but if we're not going to use him once healthy, there really is zero reason to not just take anything offered since it's a 100% chance he'll leave in FA and he'll only be back for the final 6ish games of the season anyways. Everything I had in there was just the first phase of fixing this team, as like you said, it won't be done in one offseason. But they're the realistic moves I'd make in the next 8 months with our draft picks, cap room and Burns' trade value, I think getting a #1 WR and a top level starting guard in FA is absolutely do-able.