Mage

Yeah, Saints have legitimately had terrible playoff luck. I think they absolutely beat Philly, although the Eagles were magical that postseason. Definitely should have beat the Rams They also lost in OT in 2019 to the Vikings after never getting a chance to touch the ball.

Also I didn't know this until I looked it up but apparently Marino and Jimmy HATED each other. And they were still able to have some success.

Jimmy Johnson took over a team with 35 year old Dan Marino in a time where you couldn't make moves like you can now (or well, you could, but teams didn't because free agency was still in its infancy) and they made the playoffs 3 out of 4 years. Gruden was out of coaching for 10 years. And I think people forget that he was rightfully fired from Tampa Bay. Parcells was out of coaching for 3 years and they made the playoffs 2 out of 4 seasons and finished with a winning record 3 times.

Unfair to compare Payton to Martz IMO. Payton found offensive success with several different moving parts. Even the early 200s Giants teams he coordinated were solid on offense and he helped get the Giants to the Super Bowl with Kerry Collins. Hell Winston still ain't good but Payton took a notorious turnover-machine who had an incredibly bad 4.4 INT% in his 2 years before New Orleans and in 2021 Payton had him looking pretty solid (1.4 INT%). They went 5-2. Also got the best out of Teddy too. Martz scheme was so talent-dependent. He tanked every offense he coached after that once the talent went away. Asked far too much of the OL because every pass was a 7-step drop or had to wait for the play to develop downfield. But they had Orlando Pace and three crazy good route-runners in Faulk, Bruce, and Holt (lord what a team) as well as a QB with a great release and elite accuracy. His scheme also completely neglected the tight end position and that just wasn't going to fly as the years went on and went. Maybe Payton suddenly isn't a good offensive mind anymore. That would surprise me and really there is no reason to think that - this is a guy who was still winning game with Taysom Hill at QB. But Martz was a whole different case. He was a flash-in-the-pan who took advantage of supreme talent and the fact defenses weren't build to stop an offense that was sending 4 WRs out onto the field on 1st down. Sean Payton has 15+ years of proven success. Martz had like 5 with the greatest offensive talent we have ever seen and probably will never see again.

Yes, he'd fit there really well. I think it is important you support him with a running game. Brady can still make most of the throws, we see that, but the Bucs did a disservice having him lead the league in pass attempts two years in a row. I also think he would fit really well with Sean Payton. Payton's always had a balanced offense (outside of that 4 year stretch where the Saints had to pass a lot to make up for the lack of defense). Passing scheme fits with Brady and we know Payton is able to keep an offense productive with an aging, somewhat limited QB. Payton also LOVES his RBs in the passing game, so again another fit there. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that we have to be cognizant that Brady won't be able to carry us (or any team). But I do think in the right situation you can still win a playoff game and maybe more with him. He's still really good at limiting mistakes and his leadership is out of this world.

I mean they asked him to throw 66 times against a very good defense with an elite pass rush. So yeah he didn't look too great. I don't think Brady is an MVP-level player anymore but I also don't think we should hold that game against him. It was a terrible match-up for an offense that has been bad all year. I think Brady would look better in a more balanced offense, not one the asks him to will them to victory every week.

And to be clear... that isn't the kind of head coach you want?

This is the only thing I disagree with. How did Tepper not move on from Rhule quickly? He only coached 38 games here. That is absolutely a quick turnaround as most bad HCs still usually get a full 3-4 years unless they are causing problems for the FO or players (Chip Kelly, Urban Meyer). Even the aggressive Rams held onto Jeff Fisher for 4 1/2 seasons. I agree with you he should have gotten fired as soon as Year 2 ended but in the grand scheme of things I'd say Tepper moved on pretty fast. And I'd still argue the main reason he didn't get fired last year is because so many teams fired their HC and we didn't want to compete with all the other teams for a HC. I said last year that I actually felt like we might benefit by waiting another year because there would be far less openings. Panthers aren't even in the conversation for Sean Payton last year, meanwhile this year some would argue we are the most desirable HC spot.

You don't interview Fangio and not hire him.

Why not?

The Saints aren't getting a 1st for Sean Payton. They can say they want a 1st all they want but it ain't happening. And what are they going to do, hold Sean Payton forever? They will settle for something. And everyone keeps comparing it to past trades for coaches but this ain't that. Gruden was 39 when Bucs traded for him. Belichick was 48. Payton is 59 and NFL hiring practices have trended towards younger coaches. Maybe I'm wrong but I'll be surprised if a team actually trades a 1st for him. I think that is just noise. Saints will get like, a 2nd and 4th.

Relocation.

Vic Fangio as DC... no way we are that lucky right? Vic Fangio is as proven as they come. There is no way you interview this man and don't offer him a contract. I mean I guess it is possible Vic Fangio doesn't want to come here but in another thread where I brought Fangio up, I mentioned how there weren't a ton of DC openings that we'd have to compete for. And we have the talent for a Fangio defense. I don't see why he wouldn't want to come here, if the money is right and he wants to be a coordinator again (and clearly he does). This would be an absolutely brilliant hire. And we could go into 2023 feeling confident that our defense would, at the very least, be above average. This is the benefit of having an owner willing to spend. Fangio ain't gonna come cheap for an assistant. But he will be worth every dime.

1. Ron Rivera 2. John Fox 3. Capers Fox and Rivera is close. But Rivera coached the best team in history and was more open to being more aggressive, whereas Fox always remained the same ole' conservative coach. I'd also argue that Rivera surrounded himself with better assistant coaches than Fox did. AND lastly, Fox tanked one of the best and probably the most underrated Panthers team ever (2009 Panthers) because of his refusal to bench Jake Delhomme. That was a more complete version of the 2008 team and all we needed was Matt Moore to be the starter, but Fox refused. Rivera wasn't the best at personnel changes but I don't think any decision he made was worse than Fox's that year to stick with Jake.

Doug Pederson also won a SB and has the Jags in the divisional round of the playoffs.

I mean to be fair how many Super Bowl HCs end up leaving the team they won with and head coaching somewhere else? Andy Reid made it to a Super Bowl with Philly and won with KC. Would it have made a difference for KC's chances if he won in Philly? Not arguing for Sean Payton, but I feel like the list of guys who "didn't" do it is awfully short.

I don't expect some huge bidding war for Sean Payton. He's 59 years old and what assurances does a team have that he is in it for the long-run? I think teams have it set in their mind what they are willing to give up, so I don't think this raises or lowers the asking price for him. I agree with this. I might be a little uneasy but that's it. Ensuring you get a top 5 (at worst top 10) head coach would be worth it. However preferably I'd rather give up multiple 2nds. But we'll see. I really really really don't think we get him and honestly I'd much rather have someone like Ben Johnson or Steichen, but I'm no fool. Sean Payton is a proven HC. So definitely good on us for doing our due diligence.

yessir ben Johnson 2023

Longest first half of all time

I wonder what the Panthers would be willing to give up. That would decide how interested I am in Sean Payton.

Ben Baby Ben

He's probably just implying that Manuel would be a potential option of DC for Ben Johnson. So that is why we are interviewing him. At least that is how I take it.

Look, I'm not saying the Panthers should give up the farm for a guy who you will need to sign to a long-term deal. But we owe it to the team to at least call the Ravens after their season comes to an end tonight and see what's up.

You never know, that was like 25 years ago. Wouldn't be the first coordinator to go back to his former team. Not that I expect it to happen, but it would be awesome. I'm sure he'll be a DC again. Maybe he goes with Sean Payton, but if he doesn't? There aren't a whole lot of teams looking for a DC. Wouldn't hurt to inquire.

Imagine CarolinaHuddle if a thread pops up next Tuesday... "Panthers are interviewing Vic Fangio for a coordinator position"