panthers55

Truth is I have found the French to be much friendlier than Americans in big cities. They love children and randomly have offered directions and when having to take grandchildren on and off trains or having to climb stairs random people both male and female have come up offering to help carry the stroller up the stairs without being asked. Didn't happen at JFK on the way over. Frankly I feel much safer here than in most US cities. So you be safe.

Morgan finished 2nd in tackles in 2005 so he was still effective when he played. I expected you to discount the rest of the defense. But your opinion about the other guys is very skewed to your agenda and not universally shared. But I am going to.let you guys argue among yourself as it is 1030 pm in France which is the only reason I am posting at all. And I will be here and in Barcelona the rest of the month. So save all the comment to me until then. I doubt I will be checking in much and in comparison these tired old arguments don't compare to the Louvre or Notre Dame which is where we went today. Got to get sleep to head to Nice tomorrow to watch my son in law compete for the US in the Mondial du pan international bread competition. I might be able to watch a game the next few Sundays. Au revoir.

Don't know what you are referring to but how many games did the defense win for us last Year? Seems to me they lost us some games that would have been wins after Bryce brought us back

Thanks for the research.Two comments. Shouldn't we at least give Bryce the rest of this year before we try and compare? And do you really think Bryce has had half the talent around him that Jake did his first 2 years. And a third comment. I can think of at least 3 games last year where Bryce did bring us back at the end only to have the defense give it away. I do have to give credit to Jake for 2004. Given all the injuries I would say the talent on that team on offense might have been comparable to what Bryce had last year. Jake won 7 and Bryce won 5. Otherwise the talent wasn't even close to what Jake had. I don't include this year until it is over.

You seem to have left out some guys from 2005. Our linebackers included Dan Morgan who was a probowler for example in 2004. How about the rest of the D line including Buckner, Al Wallace, Jordan Carstan, and Mike Rucker in addition to Peppers. Shall we talk about safeties including Mike Minter and Thomas Davis or cornerbacks including Chris Gamble in addition to Ken Lucas. And that is just the defense. No you clearly see what you to see and ignore everything that doesn't fit your agenda.

Another reason you can't really compare QBs from different eras.

Please do because this is like the 10th time I have said it. I advocated to bring in some real competition this year at draft time with a top draft pick or better vet than Dalton. I am a Panther fan not a Bryce fan. I support him because he is a Panther. He wasn't my choice when we drafted him and anyone who read my posts would know that. If we dump Bryce he will be dead to me. So yeah keep remembering that as we continue our conversation.

Without a point by point rebuttal I would argue the defensive talent Jake had was consistently better than Bryce has had meaning he didn't have to be great to win. And lets be real while Bryce has had better talent each year, this squad is the only one where you would say .any players are NFL quality. We were bringing guys to play line off the streets last year. We did seem to.learn our lesson by giving Bryce depth on the line given we have lost 2 starters for the seasoned other guys who games. What you see is your remembrance of the games you saw colored by your own filter which doesn't necessarily make it true.

If he sucks it up we need to bring in real competition to compete for the starter position. He could still be a backup as he has shown he can play in the NFL but we need someone who can win consistently.

Total yard averages for someone playing for 7 seasons with good talent and Steve Smith to throw to hardly compares to Bryce's roughly 2 seasons ( he has played a total of roughly 30 some games)with poor talent and multiple systems. If Bryce lasts another 5 or 6 years then you can compare them.

Actually it does. Jake had better talent around him and a consistent coach for his career. Yeah he came out off the blocks and led us to success early which was opposite of Bryce, but honestly I think the team this year is the first time Bryce has had a legitimate coach and decent talent around him. Something almost every knowledgeable analyst has said over the past 2 years. It only seems in the huddle all that gets ignored and he has been constantly criticized about a lot of things he had no control over and they weren't his fault.

And again does that guarantee success. There have been a lot of QBs with all the measurables who have had less success than Bryce already. Is it a minimum that if you don't reach you can't be successful? Bryce has already shown you can win despite your size if you have other attributes that make up for it.

I don't think many folks on here would disagree that he needs to improve and that he is a work in progress. But many of us are seeing the progress and giving him the benefit of the doubt supporting his continued improvement. After the crap show we have endured the last number of years I would think more people would be on board the Young train.

You mean he got crap in 2005 after taking us to the NFC Championship. I don't remember that honestly but am not saying that is it not true. But in either case do you think it was justified?

And how many QBs have had that much athletic ability as Cam. Look at Tom Brady he surely wasn't athletic and would fall down instead of taking a sack later in his career. And did the Panthers have back to back winning seasons under Cam. Maybe athletic ability is overrated with QBs.

And how many games did we win where Delhomme had less than 200 yards passing and we averaged over 150 yards running the ball with JStew and DeAngelo? I really am asking since I don't care enough to research it. But if it was a number, how come he hasn't gotten the crap Bryce has gotten.

So tell me he didn't sulk on the sidelines with his head in a towel when he played poorly early in his career. Do you remember when he first was drafted he wouldn't even work with the team in the weight room until Thomas Davis set him straight. Cam was our best QB until he got hurt but he had a lot of growing up to do which he did. But let's remember he was a work in progress just like Bryce although at different things. And lets be real Cam joined a much better team than Bryce did especially the defense. What hurt Cam and the team was fruit basket turnover evey year by Gettleman which kept the team from developing chemistry and consistency early in several seasons. I loved Cam but am realistic about his progress and need to develop and grow.

Actually the support seems legitimate and not just when in public. It is a team sport and players have to believe and trust their QB and give their all for the team. Lately that seems to be developing. As players have shared their is a different culture being built for the Panthers as winning helps players see the changes result in some success.

I see progress and improvements. We aren't the same team we were even at the beginning of this year. You want to harp on the past while I am all about the present and future. Do I know thinks are going to be great moving forward? Actually I don't but I prefer to look at the good instead of the bad. Since he is surely going to be the QB the rest of this year barring injury, I am going to root for him to succeed instead of fail. I always said if we are going to finish at 500 for the year I prefer we win at home since I will be there and want to see wins and crying opposing fans like the cowboys. So far mission accomplished. Now we have to show we can win on the road.

Totally disagree. Listen to his teammates. He is the glue that keeps the offense together. He has the confidence to Keep Pounding. If you listened to him miked up against Miami you could see him willing his teammates to stay positive which mushroomed when he lead the comeback after burying us early with errors. You can see how hard his teammates fight for him and the team. He is the heart of the offense which as a QB is his biggest job as a leader.

He is comparing him to Cam who had to wait for a player to be clearly open and try to laser it in there allowing defender to recover. Bryce does a much better job throwing to spots and trusting his guys to be where they were supposed to be. Something that was one of Cams biggest limitations and something honestly he never did well. And if the receiver isn't in the right spot it isn't the QBs fault. He is usually throwing it before the receiver makes his cut. Receivers make qbs look good or bad not usually the other way around.

Actually when he was doing this he was often sulking with a towel over his head and not rallying his team at all. It wasn't until he learned to stay positive and be a team player that he had his greatest success.

Bryce has shown he can be effective throwing when he needs too. But the goal is not be one dimensional but have the ability to run and pass when the other team tries to limit you. Most times the more a quarterback throws is inversely related to winning the game as they are likely behind and playing catchup. Bryce has shown he can throw the ball under pressure and comeback which is huge. Is he a complete QB yet? No but honestly he has played one season in this system (roughly 16 games) with a first time head coach and a team somewhat bereft of talent. What I am encouraged by is his continued progress and willingness to learn and grow. Given his incredibly poor results in year 1 and early year 2, many folks were so discouraged they gave up.on him and haven't changed their mind. When he learns how to win on the road in the NFL he will be well on his way to being our franchise qb. Did I want him as our QB? No. But he is our guy and until he is no longer here I will support him.

Most of these negative takes on Bryce not being very good or discounting his performance because he struggled early or contributed early mistakes ignore that he is incredible resilient and keeps fighting. That is incredibly important and something Cam for example struggled with for a good portion of his early career. If he played poorly at the beginning he rarely improved. When he learned to let it go and move forward, he improved significantly. Cam is also the reason I think people discount Bryce's skills. Cam was bigger than life and had physical attributes few quarterbacks can match. He challenged folks to stop him and had some great moves like his superman poses and dabbing on everyone. He was fun to watch and an icon. Bryce is almost the polar opposite of Cam. He has to use brains over brawn and use other players to get the job done. He doesn't take over the game and is kind of boring in interviews. But what he does have is confidence which makes others around him better. They are learning to trust and believe in him and play hard for him. He is a good leader who has shown this season that he can produce comebacks and win at the end. How many times in the last 10 games did he bring us back only for the defense to fail to hold the lead. Even last week after scoring late did he have to do even more after the defense gave up a late TD. If you loved Cam and want his clone you won't like Bryce ever. But Cam was unique and we might not see the likes of him again. But Bryce has the ability to win in this league and return us to competitiveness in his own way.

Of course we need to keep evolving the passing and running game. You need both as teams are always trying to take away your weapons. And running or passing when they know what you are going to do is the goal.