panthers55

Thank you for reinforcing to me like many posters before that I need to find another board with less negative crap from the same dozen posters who dominate every thread. Have fun going back and forth with the few who remain. After 20 years here you have finally driven me away as well as just about every other long term poster. Congratulations.

And who isn't better with a great running game. And who said he can carry a team on his back? You try way too hard to crap on him and any poster who supports him. Hardly something a moderator should do in the first place. Are you trying to drive the board into constant negative territory all by.yourself. as Fiery Prophet said recently if your goal is to drive everyone away you are doing a great job

Again who said he was great or elite. And that ranking is totally subjective .

And if you can't see the improvement then your are either blind or unwilling to change your already knowing point of view.

And the same few poster keep spewing the same crap over and over.

Bryce Young is a game manager who.lets his team do the work and gets them the ball. He also.makes players around him better. Much like a point guard who distributes the ball. And at 4-3 it seems to be working. Let's ride this train and see how it goes.

The issue with Burns is that he sucks against the run. The Giants are 31st against the run and he doesn't help. He is a great pass rusher but is a 1 trick pony. I would rather have guys who are 3 down players and can play the run and pass.

Sure he is a former Panther and stays involved with the team but I think he is a straight shooter and tells it like it is. He surely seems more positive than folks around here and he surely knows a lot more than folks here. Feel free to respond to me but know I claim no expertise just repost those who I respect and think are.

Truth is I have found the French to be much friendlier than Americans in big cities. They love children and randomly have offered directions and when having to take grandchildren on and off trains or having to climb stairs random people both male and female have come up offering to help carry the stroller up the stairs without being asked. Didn't happen at JFK on the way over. Frankly I feel much safer here than in most US cities. So you be safe.

Morgan finished 2nd in tackles in 2005 so he was still effective when he played. I expected you to discount the rest of the defense. But your opinion about the other guys is very skewed to your agenda and not universally shared. But I am going to.let you guys argue among yourself as it is 1030 pm in France which is the only reason I am posting at all. And I will be here and in Barcelona the rest of the month. So save all the comment to me until then. I doubt I will be checking in much and in comparison these tired old arguments don't compare to the Louvre or Notre Dame which is where we went today. Got to get sleep to head to Nice tomorrow to watch my son in law compete for the US in the Mondial du pan international bread competition. I might be able to watch a game the next few Sundays. Au revoir.

Don't know what you are referring to but how many games did the defense win for us last Year? Seems to me they lost us some games that would have been wins after Bryce brought us back

Thanks for the research.Two comments. Shouldn't we at least give Bryce the rest of this year before we try and compare? And do you really think Bryce has had half the talent around him that Jake did his first 2 years. And a third comment. I can think of at least 3 games last year where Bryce did bring us back at the end only to have the defense give it away. I do have to give credit to Jake for 2004. Given all the injuries I would say the talent on that team on offense might have been comparable to what Bryce had last year. Jake won 7 and Bryce won 5. Otherwise the talent wasn't even close to what Jake had. I don't include this year until it is over.

You seem to have left out some guys from 2005. Our linebackers included Dan Morgan who was a probowler for example in 2004. How about the rest of the D line including Buckner, Al Wallace, Jordan Carstan, and Mike Rucker in addition to Peppers. Shall we talk about safeties including Mike Minter and Thomas Davis or cornerbacks including Chris Gamble in addition to Ken Lucas. And that is just the defense. No you clearly see what you to see and ignore everything that doesn't fit your agenda.

Another reason you can't really compare QBs from different eras.

Please do because this is like the 10th time I have said it. I advocated to bring in some real competition this year at draft time with a top draft pick or better vet than Dalton. I am a Panther fan not a Bryce fan. I support him because he is a Panther. He wasn't my choice when we drafted him and anyone who read my posts would know that. If we dump Bryce he will be dead to me. So yeah keep remembering that as we continue our conversation.

Without a point by point rebuttal I would argue the defensive talent Jake had was consistently better than Bryce has had meaning he didn't have to be great to win. And lets be real while Bryce has had better talent each year, this squad is the only one where you would say .any players are NFL quality. We were bringing guys to play line off the streets last year. We did seem to.learn our lesson by giving Bryce depth on the line given we have lost 2 starters for the seasoned other guys who games. What you see is your remembrance of the games you saw colored by your own filter which doesn't necessarily make it true.

If he sucks it up we need to bring in real competition to compete for the starter position. He could still be a backup as he has shown he can play in the NFL but we need someone who can win consistently.

Total yard averages for someone playing for 7 seasons with good talent and Steve Smith to throw to hardly compares to Bryce's roughly 2 seasons ( he has played a total of roughly 30 some games)with poor talent and multiple systems. If Bryce lasts another 5 or 6 years then you can compare them.

Actually it does. Jake had better talent around him and a consistent coach for his career. Yeah he came out off the blocks and led us to success early which was opposite of Bryce, but honestly I think the team this year is the first time Bryce has had a legitimate coach and decent talent around him. Something almost every knowledgeable analyst has said over the past 2 years. It only seems in the huddle all that gets ignored and he has been constantly criticized about a lot of things he had no control over and they weren't his fault.

And again does that guarantee success. There have been a lot of QBs with all the measurables who have had less success than Bryce already. Is it a minimum that if you don't reach you can't be successful? Bryce has already shown you can win despite your size if you have other attributes that make up for it.

I don't think many folks on here would disagree that he needs to improve and that he is a work in progress. But many of us are seeing the progress and giving him the benefit of the doubt supporting his continued improvement. After the crap show we have endured the last number of years I would think more people would be on board the Young train.

You mean he got crap in 2005 after taking us to the NFC Championship. I don't remember that honestly but am not saying that is it not true. But in either case do you think it was justified?

And how many QBs have had that much athletic ability as Cam. Look at Tom Brady he surely wasn't athletic and would fall down instead of taking a sack later in his career. And did the Panthers have back to back winning seasons under Cam. Maybe athletic ability is overrated with QBs.

And how many games did we win where Delhomme had less than 200 yards passing and we averaged over 150 yards running the ball with JStew and DeAngelo? I really am asking since I don't care enough to research it. But if it was a number, how come he hasn't gotten the crap Bryce has gotten.

So tell me he didn't sulk on the sidelines with his head in a towel when he played poorly early in his career. Do you remember when he first was drafted he wouldn't even work with the team in the weight room until Thomas Davis set him straight. Cam was our best QB until he got hurt but he had a lot of growing up to do which he did. But let's remember he was a work in progress just like Bryce although at different things. And lets be real Cam joined a much better team than Bryce did especially the defense. What hurt Cam and the team was fruit basket turnover evey year by Gettleman which kept the team from developing chemistry and consistency early in several seasons. I loved Cam but am realistic about his progress and need to develop and grow.