Steve Smith wasn't lying...

[Baschski]

Smith's worst year was when our QB's consisted of David Carr, Vinny Testaverde and rookie Matt Moore. Hardly evidence for Jake Delhomme's amazing prowess at the QB position.

[Punisher]

Delhomme best year came when he feed a stud who wouldnt throw a tantrum if he didn't get the ball before halftime. His other options were Colbert, Proehl, Hankton, and Mangum. You hear that sweat of defensive coordinators around the league are breaking into. Seriously, how can it be good for a qb when things are going bad for your team, and then you have a reciever going off like an overgrown 10 year old. I don't care what a QB says that is going to affect him and cause him to start looking that way more. Fox's best teams have been ones who have been patience and disciplined. Look at what the Peete offense did in 02. It sucked overall. But they were patience for that big 30-40 yard play then they tried to score.

[pepaw]

And sorry, Peppers has had the best career of a Panther, but Smith is a close second.

I disagree.

With Steve Smith discounting his rookie year where he was not allowed to practice with the Wr's and 2004 where he went out first game you have a player that has averaged 1159 Ypg a season. (If my memory serves correctly there is only one or two WRs that have a higher avg for this time frame with a much better QB play). While Jake couldn't muster a QB rating over 88 on a run first team w/o a second receiver for the most part.

With Pep you had an average of 11 sacks per season, while playing on what was regarded for a while as the best defensive line in football for a while, and later on in his career was still pretty solid. Although in his defense Trgo was a poo coordinator but so was Dan Henning. Also 2007 was inexcusable.

They both were solid on special teams. Pep blocked FGs and Smitty returned TDs and made it to the pro bowl on this merit.

I feel based on comparisons between there reg season play slight edge is to Smitty. But in playoffs it is not even close

Smitty 97rec ypg and a td.

Pep 2 sacks and an int over his entire post season career. Both played 8 post season games.

89>90.

[Proudiddy]

Exactly what people were saying when Jake was obviously on the decline, is what I'm reading into your posts.

Do you really think hes at the level of decline that Jake was though?

I've stated multiple times that Smitty has been my favorite player on this team, and most likely in the NFL for years. But, yes, I'd say he's declining pretty badly, and quick. Part of the reason he didn't fumble before is because he was so fast in the open field, no one could get a clean shot on him.

The last two weeks, it looked like he was running in place or in slow motion and another defender ran up and knocked the ball out from him, also, if I remember with Spencer last week I think that was a pretty jarring hit. This week the same, both from the side or behind. That never happened before.

I've mentioned his lack of YAC now. It's very possible that breaking that arm twice in the same year may have made him play softer. I never thought I'd say that, but in all seriousness... When have you seen him use his famous stiff arm. He's not the same player.

I know it's hard to accept, but he almost lost us the game last week b/c of a dumbass penalty and then the fumble, and he had a couple drops. Same thing this week, fumble, multiple drops, etc. He can still get open with ease for the most part, but he's nowhere near as fast as he was before.

And although Smitty has been my favorite player for awhile, I see players for what they are. Smitty has been a great player, but look at how much stuff he's done here off the field. He's fought 3 teammates, essentially ending 2 of their careers. He's talked poo about several things going on in the organization, whether it be players, front office, whatever. He's carried the diva attitude along the way - which I've always enjoyed watching with guys like him, Ocho, and T.O.

Problem is, once your skills are diminishing, that stuff isn't acceptable and excused anymore, nor is it entertaining. We, as a franchise, have bent the rules for him and he continued to act in the same way regardless. As someone else mentioned him talking about the rookie WRs weren't kissing his ass enough and such... Yet, he doesn't want to be a #1 anymore... So which is it??? Sounds like an identity crisis.

I said it last week... Usually when Smitty gets fired up and goes after an opposing player, he wins the battle. When he went after Spencer last week, and then Spencer got him back and made him fumble, I said that may have been the beginning of the end, or at least the first visual sign of it for Smitty. He never lost when he challenged a guy that I ever remember... Deangelo Hall for example...

My point is, he has been a dick throughout his career here, but we all looked the other way because we loved what he could do on the field. He can't do those things anymore, but he still appears to be as volatile. They wiped out the roster of vets, but kept him... Yes, he's still the best WR we have even if he has declined, but we may as well cut our losses.

He still has a few good performing years left but I don't see him regaining the 'gamebreaking' form that made him who he was before. I'd love for him to retire a Panther but it seems he's just turning into that angry 'old' man that can't adapt to or accept who he's become. So, we may as well try to get some value for him because he's not going to get any better.

As much poo as I've talked about him in this thread, he has been my favorite player, but my team comes first. And if you've ever been a fan of him as a player... Honestly, do you really think it's good for him to be here with the current state of the team and the QB situation. He's pissed b/c they can't get him the ball when he does get open, he's dropping it more than ever when they do get it to him, he's fumbling in critical times, and we can see through his demonstrations - he's still demanding the ball, which he has the right to.

But, that has all the makings of bad things to come. Even worse than just a losing record. I still want him to do well, but there's no telling what will happen at QB. I believe the handling of the QB situation cost him the last 2 seasons or so, and possible HOF consideration. So, it's been unfair to him as well. And we've reached our ceiling with him as far as potential with what this offense can do until we find a franchise QB.

[cptx]

couldnt have said it better myself

[Floppin]

Smith's worst year was when our QB's consisted of David Carr, Vinny Testaverde and rookie Matt Moore. Hardly evidence for Jake Delhomme's amazing prowess at the QB position.

What? Smith's worst year was the year without Jake, and that proves Jake didn't help out Smith's numbers?

I don't think I follow this logic.

[ggasu]

Smith is 5-10 and has lost a couple steps....T.O. has lost a couple steps as well, but is bigger than the defenders. Steve Smith is done...2 years after the 2010 season tops, and nothing close to the average career stats in those two years

[Baschski]

What? Smith's worst year was the year without Jake, and that proves Jake didn't help out Smith's numbers?

I don't think I follow this logic.

He was arguing that Jake made Smith better and gave Smith's bad season as evidence for it. The logic being that Smith didn't do well because Jake wasn't the one throwing him the ball. In reality, he didn't do well because the guys throwing him the ball were awful, not because they weren't Jake. If we had a QB on the roster that year that didn't suck dick, Smith's production would have been fine.

[Baschski]

I think this thread after two bad games on Smith's part is a little premature. He looked fine in the first couple games of the season. He was tearing it up at the end of last season. If he comes out and lights it up next week I don't think all you guys will still be calling to get rid of him.

[Proudiddy]

I think this thread after two bad games on Smith's part is a little premature. He looked fine in the first couple games of the season. He was tearing it up at the end of last season. If he comes out and lights it up next week I don't think all you guys will still be calling to get rid of him.

I'd like to say you're right, but I think I have to stand by the assumption that he doesn't fit in with the team as it is constructed now. It's detrimental to both him and the team.

I really want him to retire as a Panther, but unless we get a surefire star at QB or WR in the draft, I don't think anything is going to change.

And I've thought all through this season that he hasn't looked the same, even with the TD catches. His trademark is YA catch and YA contact... He's not getting those anymore. He did look like the old Smitty at the end of last year, but could just be the combination of injuries and age now.