Hurney shouldn't be fired for two main reasons

[Kevin Greene]

I think that some of the haters need to make up their mind about whether the team under-achieved because Fox got predictable, or whether it was because Hurney never provided him with the talent necessary to excel.

And Patrick, how would the New England Director of Player Personnel (they don't have a GM) look today had they not gotten lucky with Tom Brady? Would they finally have figured out how to find a cornerback? And in Indy, would Polian look as smart without Manning? There are a ton of elements at play on a pro football team...

Again, great GMs are judged in hindsight.

Witness Joe Montana, 3rd round, Bill Walsh.

There is no point taking a player that should go later in a draft you think might be good earlier than is justified.

Armanti Edwards at 89 in the 3rd round (for your future 2nd) is just plain stupid.

[Fiz]

You also trade away a player like Richard Seymour (read Julius Peppers)who at 30 and being due for a huge contract are prime trade bait. A poorly run team like the Raiders ships you a #1 pick in this scenario. And if an idiot like Hurney calls and wants your 3rd rounder (for his 2nd, which likely will be at the top of the round) you chuckle quietly and accept.

the peppers and seymour situations are not very comparable

[Cyberjag]

Is the Edwards trade dumber than a second for Jarrett or Shelton? You gamble, you win, you lose. And in the end, you're judged on the overall roster you're able to assemble, NOT on who was taken where.

Hurney has not been able to get a franchise QB, but other than that, this season excepted for JR's influence, he's done a fine job at assembling a roster full of drafted talent.

On balance, he's been good at identifying talent and bringing it in. He's made mistakes like every GM, and some of his plans have run into the brick wall of reality. But his job is to find and hire good people, and then listen to them. He's done that with Don Gregory, he found a great coach in Fox, and he's been outstanding at cap management. If we get a good coach in here (and I trust him to find one) and we get a true franchise QB, he's going to look better than he is.

He's good, and we're lucky to have him.

[Kevin Greene]

the peppers and seymour situations are not very comparable

In the Franchise Tag years agreed.

In 2007 when Pepeprs was still under contract and passed on signing a contract extension that would have made him the leagues highest paid defensive player the red flag should have been at the top of the flag pole.

[Cyberjag]

In the Franchise Tag years agreed.

In 2007 when Pepeprs was still under contract and passed on signing a contract extension that would have made him the leagues highest paid defensive player the red flag should have been at the top of the flag pole.

And who's to say it wasn't there? Tell me what Hurney could have done differently?

[Fiz]

In the Franchise Tag years agreed.

In 2007 when Pepeprs was still under contract and passed on signing a contract extension that would have made him the leagues highest paid defensive player the red flag should have been at the top of the flag pole.

after he'd taken the entire year off in 2007? you'd prefer hurney sell low?

[Fiz]

keep in mind also that seymour was not the best player on the defensive line in new england. also that they ran a completely different system. also that al davis overpaid for him.

you're creating a very bad comparison, then making a major assumption (namely that the Panthers could have gotten someone to grossly overpay) and looking kinda dumb just saying brobiwan

[Fiz]

btw i was absolutely owning people in this thread and it's funny to see people make the same arguments i obliterated like a month ago

[Kevin Greene]

Is the Edwards trade dumber than a second for Jarrett or Shelton? You gamble, you win, you lose. And in the end, you're judged on the overall roster you're able to assemble, NOT on who was taken where.

Hurney has not been able to get a franchise QB, but other than that, this season excepted for JR's influence, he's done a fine job at assembling a roster full of drafted talent.

On balance, he's been good at identifying talent and bringing it in. He's made mistakes like every GM, and some of his plans have run into the brick wall of reality. But his job is to find and hire good people, and then listen to them. He's done that with Don Gregory, he found a great coach in Fox, and he's been outstanding at cap management. If we get a good coach in here (and I trust him to find one) and we get a true franchise QB, he's going to look better than he is.

He's good, and we're lucky to have him.

I just don't know how you can make a statement like that when for two years the Panthers were completely hamstrung having to pay Julius Peppers 17 million, then 20 million in Franchise Tag contracts.

Completely unable to sign free agents they were so desperate for cap space they were forced to extend Jake Delhomme, a QB who was clearly done for a few Cap Space dollars.

Stuff like this hurts:

UPDATE: Holy cowpies. According to multiple reports, the contract pays Delhomme about $7 million in 2010. That's most certainly starter money. Now, here's the really interesting part, and a fairly valid reason why Panthers GM Marty Hurney should be job-hunting in the near future. According to Andrew Brandt of our friends at the National Football Post, Delhomme's contract didn't have an offset clause. The offset clause is a common part of player contracts; it protects teams from paying the full guaranteed value of contracts for former players that play on other teams. So, in this case, the $7 million from Cleveland would offset the obligation of over $12 million owed by Carolina. However, since nobody thought to insert that particular piece of language, the Panthers still have to pay the full amount, AND Delhomme gets his Cleveland money as well. That's right, folks -- a quarterback who threw eight touchdowns and 18 interceptions in 2009 will eventually get nineteen million dollars to both play, and not play, in 2010. Ain't America great?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Panthers-Browns-conspire-to-pay-Jake-Delhomme-a?urn=nfl-227807

.

[Lakejamescat]

We need to look at the quality of player assessment as far as judging the talent pool of free agents and young prospects. This is not necessarily the GM but may be the people below the GM who actually bring the information to the "suits" upstairs. Who are the people doing the grunt work and who are evaluating talent? I truly think this is a key to maintaining success. Chuck Smith, Sean Gilbert etc., not great examples of this

[Fiz]

I just don't know how you can make a statement like that when for two years the Panthers were completely hamstrung having to pay Julius Peppers 17 million,

2nd in NFC, first round bye

then 20 million

top 5 defense, would have made playoffs if not for shell shocked delhomme

Stuff like this hurts:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Panthers-Browns-conspire-to-pay-Jake-Delhomme-a?urn=nfl-227807

.

actually had no negative effect on the team whatsoever.

[Fiz]

Chuck Smith, Sean Gilbert etc., not great examples of this

what of this thread? because both of those moves predate hurney as gm

[Kevin Greene]

after he'd taken the entire year off in 2007? you'd prefer hurney sell low?

As opposed to paying him 37 million dollars in 2 years which precluded us signing any viable free agent talent?

Yes.

It was obvious he didn't want to be here by the year vacation Peppers took. A 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick and an extra $20 million dollars cap space spent on some quality Free Agent talent might have made a huge difference for thePanthers in 2008 and 2009.

We'll never know.

[Cyberjag]

I just don't know how you can make a statement like that when for two years the Panthers were completely hamstrung having to pay Julius Peppers 17 million, then 20 million in Franchise Tag contracts.

Completely unable to sign free agents they were so desperate for cap space they were forced to extend Jake Delhomme, a QB who was clearly done for a few Cap Space dollars.

Stuff like this hurts:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Panthers-Browns-conspire-to-pay-Jake-Delhomme-a?urn=nfl-227807

.

Hurts who? Not the Panthers, because the way this worked out the total hit came in a non-cap year. Maybe it hurts JR a little (like when you lose a $10 bill), but he probably signed off on it.

Didn't hurt the Panthers a bit, but it sure helped them get Hollis Thomas.

As opposed to paying him 37 million dollars in 2 years which precluded us signing any viable free agent talent?

Yes.

It was obvious he didn't want to be here by the year vacation Peppers took. A 1st, 2nd or 3rd pick and an extra $20 million dollars cap space spent on some quality Free Agent talent might have made a huge difference for thePanthers in 2008 and 2009.

We'll never know.

What would that have done to our 2008 year? 12-4 still? And who would have traded for him after a 2.5 sack year anyway? What sort of offers did we get?

After 2008 we tried to sign him again, and we ended up franchising him. If you recall, he refused to sign his tender until the last possible minute, which prevented us from pursuing a sign-and-trade. And in 2010 the price tag was just too damn high.

Seriously, how do you expect ANYONE to fix that situation? Peppers did everything he could to screw over the Panthers, and in the end JR didn't want to pay for it. And had we franchised him again, which was our only option he left us, I am sure you would be bitching about the price tag...