Some constructive criticism on Cam Newton's performance. Please don't shoot.

[edromeo]

What you are saying suggests his progressions come after the snap. It doesn't work that way.

Of course.

There a pre-snap reads and post snap progressions.

[teeray]

I agreed with most of you post except for this part.

Some offenses preach that a QB should get what yards they can get as fast as they can get it especially when being blitzed.

If something breaks open before your primary WR then you should take that.

He got rid of the ball very quickly, had the right read, and Goodsen was open. He just didn't get there but it appears he had the right play and right read.

[teeray]

Of course.

There a pre-snap reads and post snap progressions.

Right. The way the OP has stated his case he suggested that you make determine who your first progression is after the snap. That is determined pre-snap and then you go through your progressions after the snap.

Goodsen was his first option based on his pre snap read. Goodsen got some separation and Cam threw to him.

Were there other guys who may have ended up being more open? Yeah but Cam doesn't know that in advance, he has to get through his progressions.

Edit: I see what you are saying I worded that post weird. I meant the order of progressions are determined pre snap

[PantherFanForLife]

Let me try it this way. Cam Newton brought Naanee in motion to get a pre-snap read and read that they were in man to man.

They also showed blitz coming to his left.

So what he may have seen is that either the linebacker clears with Naanee and Goodsen is wide open or Goodsen is one on one with a linebacker. That is the match up he wants.

Olsen is covered by the safety, Naanee is covered by the corner with inside help, and Goodsen is left one on one with a linebacker. BOOM! Goodsen is my read.

After that you only come off him if he isn't open. If he isn't open you go to your second progression, etc. Cam read man, did indeed get the best match up to get the first down or touchdown, and went with his read.

If you have match ups of safety to tight end, corner to receiver, adn LB to a guy like Goodsen then you take Goodsen versus linebacker all day long.

It doesn't matter who is the most open. It simply doesn't. That is not how playing QB works. It sounds great but is simply wrong.

Again you should start a seminar for QB coaches and revolutionize the game.

Except you miss one thing. Lennon, the linebacker, wasn't Naanee's defender. It was Arizona #20. They were in man to man, and Naanee actually lost his man 2 steps into the play when he made his cut. The guy missed Naanee completely and went into the endzone by himself before realizing Naanee had cut across. Newton was looking in that direction and saw this take place. So knowing he's in man to man, he also knows someone else needs to pick up Naanee, or Naanee's an open target. Well that someone was Antrel, who was a step behind Naanee. That left both Naanee's defender and Antrel scrambling to adjust to their new targets, which is where the opportunity presented itself.

Naanee made a damn good cut and created those opportunities. You gotta give him credit for it even if Cam didn't take advantage of it.

His initial target, oth, Goodson, had his defender gunning straight for him from the moment the play snapped all the way to the end of the play(and yes, the fact Newton never took his eyes off Goodson is probably why). And Goodson never got close to beating him. The only defender out of these three that didn't miss his man and had to adjust was Lennon on Goodson. Again, Goodson was best defended. He was actually the riskiest target to hit.

In fact you can actually see Lennon wanting to turn and pick up Naanee, but he saw that Cam wasn't taking his eyes off Goodson. What I would have liked to see is the moment Newton saw Naanee lose # 20....his head should have started to track him across, while "knowing" he can always check back down to Goodson. That may have gotten Lennon to go after Naanee leaving Goodson open and if not he still had Naanee. That's what should have happened, but didn't.

[PantherFanForLife]

I agreed with most of you post except for this part.

Some offenses preach that a QB should get what yards they can get as fast as they can get it especially when being blitzed.

If something breaks open before your primary WR then you should take that.

Thank you. This is what I always believed too. I just can't see any coach sit there with a straight face and tell his QB to pass on early openings or opportunities in order to wait for his intended targets.

[edromeo]

Right. The way the OP has stated his case he suggested that you make determine who your first progression is after the snap. That is determined pre-snap and then you go through your progressions after the snap.

Goodsen was his first option based on his pre snap read. Goodsen got some separation and Cam threw to him.

I don't think there is anyway to know what Cam's pre-snap or post snap reads without talking to Cam and the Shula/Chudz.

But, the play in the huddle/playbook has an intended progression and primary receiver.

However based on the defense looks pre-snap a QB can make a pre-snap reador site adjustment that can change how he goes through the progressions.

But a rookie QB isn't gonne do a whole lot pre-snap reads or site adjustments.

I don't think Goodson was Cam's 1st read nor the primary receiver.

I think the progression went Hi-Lo Olsen-Naanee-Goodson or Naanee-Olsen-Goodson.

Based on the depth and the timing of the routes I think its unlikely that Goodson was the 1st read unless he was a hot read but a 'texas' route isn't a 'hot' route.

Were there other guys who may have ended up being more open? Yeah but Cam doesn't know that in advance, he has to get through his progressions.

I don't think there were guys that were more open.

Cam went through his progression and made the throw he thought was best.

[PantherFanForLife]

I don't think there is anyway to know what Cam's pre-snap or post snap reads without talking to Cam and the Shula/Chudz.

But, the play in the huddle/playbook has an intended progression and primary receiver.

However based on the defense looks pre-snap a QB can make a pre-snap reador site adjustment that can change how he goes through the progressions.

But a rookie QB isn't gonne do a whole lot pre-snap reads or site adjustments.

I don't think Goodson was Cam's 1st read nor the primary receiver.

I think the progression went Hi-Lo Olsen-Naanee-Goodson or Naanee-Olsen-Goodson.

Based on the depth and the timing of the routes I think its unlikely that Goodson was the 1st read unless he was a hot read but a 'texas' route isn't a 'hot' route.

I don't think there were guys that were more open.

Cam went through his progression and made the throw he thought was best.

I believe someone already made a reply earlier where Cam stated Goodson was indeed their number one choice.

But all you have to do is watch the slow motion replay. He NEVER looks in any other direction, except Goodson's intended spot. As soon as he takes the snap, he locks in directly to the spot where he will eventually throw the ball. That's what Lennon picked up on and made him not follow Naanee and stick to Goodson.

Had that been the progression and had he done what you are saying, we would probably have a W right now. If he was dead set on throwing to Goodson, he simply forgot to sell it. He should have looked away. And again I toss that up to being a rookie and the pressure of 4th and Goal for the game during his NFL debut.

[teeray]

Except you miss one thing. Lennon, the linebacker, wasn't Naanee's defender. It was Arizona #20. They were in man to man, and Naanee actually lost his man 2 steps into the play when he made his cut. The guy missed Naanee completely and went into the endzone by himself before realizing Naanee had cut across. Newton was looking in that direction and saw this take place. So knowing he's in man to man, he also knows someone else needs to pick up Naanee, or Naanee's an open target. Well that someone was Antrel, who was a step behind Naanee. That left both Naanee's defender and Antrel scrambling to adjust to their new targets, which is where the opportunity presented itself.

Naanee made a damn good cut and created those opportunities. You gotta give him credit for it even if Cam didn't take advantage of it.

His initial target, oth, Goodson, had his defender gunning straight for him from the moment the play snapped all the way to the end of the play(and yes, the fact Newton never took his eyes off Goodson is probably why). And Goodson never got close to beating him. The only defender out of these three that didn't miss his man and had to adjust was Lennon on Goodson. Again, Goodson was best defended. He was actually the riskiest target to hit.

In fact you can actually see Lennon wanting to turn and pick up Naanee, but he saw that Cam wasn't taking his eyes off Goodson. What I would have liked to see is the moment Newton saw Naanee lose # 20....his head should have started to track him across, while "knowing" he can always check back down to Goodson. That may have gotten Lennon to go after Naanee leaving Goodson open and if not he still had Naanee. That's what should have happened, but didn't.

Assuming Naanee was even a part of the play and not there to just occupy his man and clear out that side, if Antrel is on Naanee and the linebacker is on Goodsen, and then Goodsen is the correct read.

[teeray]

I don't think there is anyway to know what Cam's pre-snap or post snap reads without talking to Cam and the Shula/Chudz.

But, the play in the huddle/playbook has an intended progression and primary receiver.

However based on the defense looks pre-snap a QB can make a pre-snap reador site adjustment that can change how he goes through the progressions.

But a rookie QB isn't gonne do a whole lot pre-snap reads or site adjustments.

I don't think Goodson was Cam's 1st read nor the primary receiver.

I think the progression went Hi-Lo Olsen-Naanee-Goodson or Naanee-Olsen-Goodson.

Based on the depth and the timing of the routes I think its unlikely that Goodson was the 1st read unless he was a hot read but a 'texas' route isn't a 'hot' route.

I don't think there were guys that were more open.

Cam went through his progression and made the throw he thought was best.

It depends if we were looking for the mismatch or just a pre-designed progression.

Even coaches in high school will design plays and with motions to create mismatches and clue your coverage and if you get the look and match up you want that becomes your primary. If primary is covered you go to your next progression.

That isn't uber advanced concepts.

[PantherFanForLife]

Assuming Naanee was even a part of the play and not there to just occupy his man and clear out that side, if Antrel is on Naanee and the linebacker is on Goodsen, and then Goodsen is the correct read.

I think you're getting confused. Antrel only got on Naanee after Arizona's #20 lost him. Antrel was initially on 88. And again I don't think it matters whether or not a guy was part of the play, if he gets himself open right in front of the QB, in a position to get the down, you take him.

Last recap and I'm done because I'm getting a headeache from this: both Antrel and #20 had to readjust and find new targets, leaving both Naanee and 88 with plenty of separation from their defenders and in a position to get the early down or TD had Newton thrown them the ball.

Had Newton simply just followed Naanee with his eyes across the field, and he could have still chose to return back for Goodson(but selling the play), it would have likely gotten Lennon(who was almost sold) to go after Naanee, and we would have still gotten the down via Goodson which would have been left uncovered.

None of those things happened though because Newton never took his eyes of his pre-snap intended target.

[teeray]

I believe someone already made a reply earlier where Cam stated Goodson was indeed their number one choice.

But all you have to do is watch the slow motion replay. He NEVER looks in any other direction, except Goodson's intended spot. As soon as he takes the snap, he locks in directly to the spot where he will eventually throw the ball. That's what Lennon picked up on and made him not follow Naanee and stick to Goodson.

Had that been the progression and had he done what you are saying, we would probably have a W right now. If he was dead set on throwing to Goodson, he simply forgot to sell it. He should have looked away. And again I toss that up to being a rookie and the pressure of 4th and Goal for the game during his NFL debut.

Him locking onto Goodsen and telegraphing the pass may be a legit criticism on that play. :eek:

[teeray]

I think you're getting confused. Antrel only got on Naanee after #20 lost him. Antrel was initially on 88. And again I don't think it matters whether or not a guy was part of the play, if he gets himself open right in front of the QB, in a position to get the down, you take him.

You say that now but what happens if Cam throws the ball his way and it hits him in the back of the helmet because he isn't expecting a pass? Once we found out he wasn't part of the play I could only imagine the things that would be said about Cam.

[PantherFanForLife]

Him locking onto Goodsen and telegraphing the pass may be a legit criticism on that play. :eek:

And we're finally back to my initial point. Exactly!

Cam needs to look around and become more aware. It's nothing seriously wrong folks. I'm not crucifying him. I personally expect a rookie QB to have moments of tunnel vision.

Ok we can close this thread now.

PS: And since he already played a game, he's no longer allowed to make those mistakes as of today, since in his case, he only gets the rookie excuse for one game. I expect all of this fixed by sunday ;)

[teeray]

I think you're getting confused. Antrel only got on Naanee after Arizona's #20 lost him. Antrel was initially on 88. And again I don't think it matters whether or not a guy was part of the play, if he gets himself open right in front of the QB, in a position to get the down, you take him.

Last recap and I'm done because I'm getting a headeache from this: both Antrel and #20 had to readjust and find new targets, leaving both Naanee and 88 with plenty of separation from their defenders and in a position to get the early down or TD had Newton thrown them the ball.

Had Newton simply just followed Naanee with his eyes across the field, and he could have still chose to return back for Goodson(but selling the play), it would have likely gotten Lennon(who was almost sold) to go after Naanee, and we would have still gotten the down via Goodson which would have been left uncovered.

None of those things happened though.

I don't think so. It looks like the inside guy had inside coverage and 20 had outside. Naanee crosses and Antrel picks him up and the corner picks up Olsen and 51 has Goodsen

Also I'll tell you what. Naanee is at the 5 and needs to get to the 1 for a first down and his man is sitting on that 1 yard line and to me looks like he has an angle on him plus Laffel is only about 10 feet away from him with a defender right there with him.

I don't think Naanee gets there even if Cam goes to him. I am watching this frame by frame right now and it honestly looks like he made the right read and the right match up but the LB made a heck of a play.

The only other guy that looks really open is Olsen but 31 is eyeing the backfield and stepping back off Laffell.

I mean the guy has 2 seconds to determine all off this and I am watching it in slow motion