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Post in this thread if you want to read and contribute to a thoughtful (if exhaustive) treatise on race and leadership in football

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Foster Grants -4

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Are your toes webbed?

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[quote name='pstall' timestamp='1359697012' post='2120656']
Foster Grants -4
[/quote]

[quote name='Kevin Greene' timestamp='1359697191' post='2120658']
Are your toes webbed?
[/quote]

?

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I use too much shaving cream. I've been shaving for many many years and I've still not got it figured out! I wash a lot of shaving cream down the drain because I squirt more than I need into my hand.

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I have a few things I'd like to say, but I'm tired so I'll simply say this and come back tommorow.

Public speaking on camera in front of a bunch of strangers who are bound and determined to get anything on you they can attack because your name is Cam Newton and speaking in a leadership role amongst your friends and close peers are two vastly different things and I find myself just lulzing to death each and every time some buffoon in the media tries to use Cams press conferences as some form of indicator of his leadership abilities.
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[quote name='Kevin Greene' timestamp='1359697191' post='2120658']
Are your toes webbed?
[/quote]
[quote name='PhillyB' timestamp='1359697520' post='2120659']
?
[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRI7Nn7y5k4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRI7Nn7y5k4[/url]

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+89 for the anthropology references, and for this being one of the best posts I've read here.

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Sir Cameron Newton: Leader of Men, Lover of Puppies...Esquire
:rock:

great piece phb

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Truly fascinating and informative, PhillyB. Should be an article.

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thousands of words that actually deliver rather than end with platitudes and [i]the truth is in the middle [/i]bullshit? a good post

maybe it's a product of spending years in a rather diverse environment but i really don't understand hate for the way cam communicates, and it's incredibly offensive for one to argue or imply that cam "struggles to communicate" just because he doesn't talk like a particular group of people wants him to. there aren't really any set rules wrt communication and if anyone has trouble understanding him that says far more about that person than mr. swag man

also tbh one could very easily say that peyton sounds like he has a stick lodged firmly up his ass and there are indeed times when an "ow wee mayne" is actually just what a team needs

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I was thinking about this tonight as I watched Russel Wilson give an interview on NFL Network. He is so "white friendly" it's no wonder the media heaps praise upon him. He sells. RG3 does as well. From a purely physical standpoint Cam is clearly superior but his image isn't as refined. I think it's a shame because Cam spends so much time and money giving back to the community but his lack of "whiteness" does detract from him in the mainstream media.

But Cam's communication trouble isn't just a racial issue, its generational. You can tell by the way he gives interviews that he grew up watching ESPN and sometimes he comes off the wrong way. Like when he apologized to Jerome Boger and he says "I'm going public". It made me think of a guy that grew up watching Cop dramas and gets a job as a Police Officer.

And Cam does have maturity issues. However I think the point of this thread is that maturity and refined Caucasian communication skills are not key to success in the NFL. In fact many NFL players reached amazing heights with no social skills while engaging in criminal behavior. Hall of Famers with all kinds of trouble in their lives found success in the NFL.
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Let's hope he has earned the C this year when the players vote. That's all that really matters, right?

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Is this that book you were talking about finishing Philly?

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Didn't know you had it in you, PB. Big ups!

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This may be my favorite post of the year.

I already told this story once, but I will give the quick version of it again. When I was in high school I was a good enough basketball player that the local news team here in Raleigh came out to do a feature on me.

They wanted to do an interview, so we go in the coaches office and they put a camera about a foot away from my face and a microphone inches from my mouth and ask me a simple question like, "Why do you hate to lose?" And I couldn't even muster up an answer. Just a long awkward silence.

I am a fairly smart guy. But I swear I could not form a complete sentence that entire interview. It was just a bunch of sentence fragments that luckily he edited up to make me not look like a complete idiot. Point being, it is very hard to be as intelligent and thoughtful as you want to be, or actually are, in the snap second that it is demanded of you in an interview.

As far as being articulate, and how that translates to being a leader. I can only speak as a basketball player, but more often than not, there is a real disconnect between the super smart, articulate guy, and the rest of the team that are just average Joes. In a locker room environment, leadership is earned, not spoken. It doesn't matter how well you can speak to the press if you can't speak to your peers. Leadership is earned by:

A.) Your actions at practice and in a game
B.) Your ability to communicate with your teammates
C.) And most importantly, the trust you have gained from your teammates through A&B

Leadership is not granted through words or articulation. It is earned by a personal connection to teammates and/or performance in practice and in games.
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[quote name='teeray' timestamp='1359722590' post='2120728']
This may be my favorite post of the year.

I already told this story once, but I will give the quick version of it again. When I was in high school I was a good enough basketball player that the local news team here in Raleigh came out to do a feature on me.

They wanted to do an interview, so we go in the coaches office and they put a camera about a foot away from my face and a microphone inches from my mouth and ask me a simple question like, "Why do you hate to lose?" And I couldn't even muster up an answer. Just a long awkward silence.

I am a fairly smart guy. But I swear I could not form a complete sentence that entire interview. It was just a bunch of sentence fragments that luckily he edited up to make me not look like a complete idiot. Point being, it is very hard to be as intelligent and thoughtful as you want to be, or actually are, in the snap second that it is demanded of you in an interview.

As far as being articulate, and how that translates to being a leader. I can only speak as a basketball player, but more often than not, there is a real disconnect between the super smart, articulate guy, and the rest of the team that are just average Joes. In a locker room environment, leadership is earned, not spoken. It doesn't matter how well you can speak to the press if you can't speak to your peers. Leadership is earned by:

A.) Your actions at practice and in a game
B.) Your ability to communicate with your teammates
C.) And most importantly, the trust you have gained from your teammates through A&B

Leadership is not granted through words or articulation. It is earned by a personal connection to teammates and/or performance in practice and in games.
[/quote]

There is somewhat of a disconnect between super smart, articulate guy and people in general. Sometimes simply being analytical, thoughtful and passionate is mistaken for arrogance.
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Many of the problems with how the average Joe/Jane assess things like leadership and intelligence stem from people just not having enough exposure to other cultures or sub-cultures. Humans generally fear or mistrust that which they don't understand, and that extends to things as simple as the way others talk or dress.

The answer is these types of problems is one of education and exposure. Unfortunately, that proves difficult at times as people would rather reside in their comfort zone and not open their minds to new things.

It's been my experience that Europeans often have a more open world view than the average American. Much of this can probably be attributed to their propensity to travel outside their home countries much, much more than most Americans.
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Expectations can be unfair at times because many times people will place them on someone yet ironically never tell the very person they have projected said burden on.
I have coached and played sports and I have learned a few things along the way.
When you tell someone you believe in them you really don't because when you do, it never has to be said. The opposite can happen with leadership. You may see it within someone but they may not just yet. Similar to saying you believe in them the same can be said of asking someone to step up and lead etc. If you are convinced they are a leader then you don't say it. You let it happen and then get out of the way.
I think the very nature of fans is to be irrational on what it wants from its team and players. Homerism and being a fan will do that.
I don't try to split the semantic atom and go into the Freudian level of what someone thinks or God forbid an article or feed from the media. I'm just a fan of sports and I like the Panthers and I want them to win. I don't have to tell them that or one guy.
All this back and forth on Cam reminds me of some friends who try to look so deep into a film they get lost in their analysis of imagery and lighting or plot holes or historical accuracy that they end up squeezing the fun and life out of just enjoying a movie for what it is. A movie.
Enjoy the team and Cams ups and downs as he grows. He will be fine.
Now pass me some popcorn and fanta cherry drink.

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[quote name='bigskypanthersguy' timestamp='1359699165' post='2120672']
+89 for the anthropology references, and for this being one of the best posts I've read here.
[/quote]

Absolutely! I'm down with anyone who can construct a scientific premise to explain some intangible principle of athletics (and no, I'm not being sarcastic - I really mean it)! Well done, sir. Mr. Darwin and Mr. Leakey would be proud of you!

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[quote name='Marguide' timestamp='1359723764' post='2120736']
Many of the problems with how the average Joe/Jane assess things like leadership and intelligence stem from people just not having enough exposure to other cultures or sub-cultures. Humans generally fear or mistrust that which they don't understand, and that extends to things as simple as the way others talk or dress.

The answer is these types of problems is one of education and exposure. Unfortunately, that proves difficult at times as people would rather reside in their comfort zone and not open their minds to new things.

It's been my experience that Europeans often have a more open world view than the average American. Much of this can probably be attributed to their propensity to travel outside their home countries much, much more than most Americans.
[/quote]

To your last point, I don't necessarily think that having a "more open world view" is the answer as much as it is having a more human view, or being more open-minded towards people and different ethnic groups in general. It is my view that some cultures (or sub-cultures) are more disposed to being open-minded or inclusive of other people because they themselves have experienced being discriminated against (for whatever reason), so they better understand and empathize with the dynamics of being culturally shortsighted,

Americans really don't have to travel outside their country to open the cultural barriers that bind their minds because this nation truly is a melting pot of different races, ethnic groups and cultures. All Americans have to do is open their minds and get over their stereotypical notions, mistrust, ignorance, fears, etc., and strive for education, communication, and a certain degree of integration of cultural barriers (in keeping with one's personal comfort level---whether that be a gradual letting of one's guard down, or complete and immediate total immersion).

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I always tip 20% and go up from there. My wife hates it.

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all those those qbs have white girlfriends.....is that the problem with cam or no???

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jesus Philly...if I was in your bar I would have been helping myself to the top shelf waiting for you to type all that out man!! Good post though...and ya...I want to be involved in a conversation that doesn't jump automatically to being accused of being racist.

I live in Canada. Compared to most US places, we don't really have very many black people in these parts. Lots of Asians, Indians..both kinds, lots of people from all over the world to be honest as that's what Canada is all about...not aboot, about! I don't consider myself a racist even in the slightest bit. Just wanted to get that out of the way first.

We all joke about Asians being the great mathmeticians of the world. Maybe it's in their DNA or their education...damned if I know. What's my point...I wasn't sure if I had to have one....no, I remember years ago a sportscaster getting in major crap because he said blacks were dominating in the running events at the Olympics I think it was because as he put it, their muscles were developed differently and they had a different muscle in their leg that made them run faster. Do I believe this...no, probably not, but it could be I suppose.

I guess my question, which won't be well liked by some, is that...I am wondering if there is a chance that certain races are just wired differently, that their minds are just programmed to do different things. Being a coach makes you think of things differently than being a fisherman or a nuclear physicist etc etc etc. damned if I know.

tldr...I know...I'm going back to sleep

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[quote name='SCP' timestamp='1359730772' post='2120794']
I always tip 20% and go up from there. My wife hates it.
[/quote]

Well maybe if you gave the wife more than 20% of the tip.
Just sayin'.
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