Well said. The buddy system is certainly not helping cops to ingratiate themselves to the community, because it's reinforcing the idea of "us vs. them" on both sides. But here's an honest question: What is the consequence to non-compliance? Or rather what should it be? "Comply or Escape?" "Comply or Shoot?" "Comply or Lawyer Up?" What does the officer have short of confrontation if a suspect chooses not to comply? I do believe a hefty part of the problem is a seemingly growing population of people who feel like they don't have to comply when an officer of the law gives them a command.
But how does a cop subjectively say, "Well this situation is minor enough that it's okay to let them get away"? I mean, on the plus side, if a cop lets a guy get away, and then the same guy kills his uncle, we run the real chance of having a real life Spider-Man. So, you know, win-win right?
"Back off, let him go." This seems to be what a lot of people think law enforcement should be these days. "Back off and let him go." Not saying the way this situation was handled was perfect, but you've got to admit that it's pretty ridiculous to even consider voluntarily letting a criminal get away on the assumption that you can catch them later. "Hmm. Here's a guy who was swerving down the street in the at 3 am. He's refusing to roll down his window or speak to me. I guess that's his constitutional right. Welp. Back off, let him go.""Here's a guy with no license, possibly in a stolen car, no tags, bottle of liquor in the driver seat with him. Oh, what now? He's driving away? Damn! He knows our one weakness! Just like we learned at the academy. Back off, let them go. We'll get 'em next time! Unless, you know, he just sorta drives away again.""Uh oh! A guys pointing a gun at me! It could be a real gun. Or it could be a fake gun. Do I really want to gamble on this? Remember your training! Back off! Let him go! Let the guy in the next jurisdiction figure it out!"The police officer of the future "To Serve and Try to Protect as Long as it's Not An Inconvenience to Anyone."
I think this is the problem right here. My track record on this board shows I'm pretty much universally pro-Cop, but this statement right here is indicative of the problem. He felt a momentary fear for his life and decided to react with deadly force. There are a multitude of actions he could have take that would have ensured his own safety and the life of DuBose. He chose "Boom! Headshot!" If an officer's first reaction to momentary panic is to put one in the suspect's head, it belies critical flaws in the officer's training, and moreover, criminal negligence. It may not have been murder in that it's unlikely this was premeditated, but negligent homicide is still homicide.
Although, as I write this, I find a flaw in my own argument. What if, when he saw DuBose reaching for the ignition, he decided to step back and let him take off unimpeded, which would have ensured his own safety, and saved the life of DuBose, and then he and the other officers could engage in a high speed pursuit through a college campus? Do you think that would have ended well? How many high speed pursuits end without some sort of collision? What happened was the course of action that ensured that no one was harmed other than the criminal who was trying to flee. I'm pretty serious here, and former cops or those knowledgeable about law enforcement, please enlighten me. Is it the responsibility of the cop to stop a hot pursuit before it happens? Is he culpable if he lets the perp drive away without any resistance, and in the resultant chase the guy t-bones another car while running through a red light, or clips a pedestrian? Damn. Now I'm conflicted.
Philadelphia is a city full of provincials who think they are New Yorkers. And I think that identity crisis fugs them up in the head. I mean seriously, I've never seen someone slam their fist on a cab and start yelling obscenities at the driver on a cobbled road. It's a beautiful city ruined by horrible people. I'd only go back if someone held a gun to my head and made me choose between Philly or New Orleans.
Just gonna throw this out. It's Thursday, I'm drunk, and when there's a break in the conversation, the first thing i do is check the Tbox.
I love you all, especially the folks i disagree with. I love to come here and get a different perspective on things, call someone an ignorant, misinformed idiot, but then find myself elated when i see their name in a thread.
You all are the best, and it's probably the Grand Marnieritas talking, but I'd totally fug all of you!
Yeah, it's great that a guy with a LiveJournal account looked at some pictures of the damage caused by the missile fragments and pulled some conclusion from the darkest part of his ass. The problem is the analysis of the missile fragments that made the damage shows that the fragments come from a Buk missile: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32283378
I can't tell from the video when he started driving. That's immaterial. That would only matter if one was defending the cop and saying he was acting in self defense. What can be said with certainty is he started his car. He was bolting. Whether he hit the gas before or after he was shot doesn't matter. That decision put him in harms way. He was either going to prison, or getting shot. He didn't act in his own best interest or his family's. There was no happy ending after he started the engine.
Also, I dont think you could say I'm defending this. I'm certainly not defending the cop's actions. They're categorically indefensible. I'm just not defending DuBose's actions.
He should still be alive, though. Tensing will spend the rest of his days in prison unless he offs himself before the trial.
Campus Police, in some jurisdictions, as I understand it, function the same as State Police off campus, as technically they are State employees. Man, if they change it that Campus police only have jurisdiction on campus, that will lead to some very brief car chases. Make a run for the border! 100 yards in any direction!
This, 100%. It's a murder. There were literally hundreds of courses of action that could have resolved this and everyone walked away alive.
But the lesson should not be lost than when you are pulled over for driving without plates, don't have your license, and have a bottle of liquor by your foot, turning on the ignition and driving off while the cop is outside your window is a bad bad bad idea. Dude was a criminal, plain and simple, and that should not be lost in the anti-cop vitriol that's sure to follow. But he shouldn't have been killed for it. It was a murder.
Welllllll the dude did try to try to drive away. This was in no way a routine traffic stop. I'd say trying to flee is pretty high up on the list of things to not do if you want to survive a traffic stop. That said, that gun came out way too quickly, and the fact that he went straight for a headshot. Damn. Yeah. That's a murder right there. Can't defend the cop's actions. But the DuBose certainly didn't help his own cause.